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Two medical organizations unhappy with Obama care

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Rick Barker, Apr 25, 2012.

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  1. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Today on Fox News reporting two studies are saying more than half of large hospitals now
    believe Obamacare is going to cause them to lose money and reduce the quality of care.

    The American Hospital Association and Federation of American Hospitals, are now retracting their support they gave earlier to the passage of ObamaCare.

    There was a mention they too were unhappy with the move to Sparta.

    I can't find links on the Fox News site, but will keep looking.
     
  2. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    I have NO sympathy for any medical organization.Especially seeing the special about a fella's appendectomy costing nearly $100,000.Investigation revealed that depending on which hospital the cost for one could ranged from $15,000 to $150,000.It's time that for regular procedures as appendectomy,removing of tonsils,etc. should have a set amountto charge.If no complications arise there shoild be a standard fee for normal procedures.The medical society is helping to Bankrupt the american people.Just as there are standard charges for normal procedures to repair cars,there ought to be the same for health care.One hospital and their doctors charging $15,000 for the same procedure as another Hospital and doctors charging $150,000,is ridiculous.Talk about gouging gas prices,how about gouging medical costs.I realize most don't support Obama care,but if the Medical practice doesn't get real,it may be the only way to normalize rates.Again,normalization of set procedures and pricing should be stadardized,barring complications.

    Doug H.
     
  3. chuckie68

    chuckie68 Active Member

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    Doug H.

    The biggest problem with Ocare is that it DID NOT address the cost of care only paying for it. And therein lies the problem. Everybody has to pay for those that won't or can't afford ins. But there is no COST MANAGEMENT directives.

    Chuck
     
  4. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    The liberal, stupid AMA still loves Obum. AJ
     
  5. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Happy ANZAC Day Rick. I don't know what the heck that is but I saw it on my calendar while paying the bills. I figured I wouldn't be a snob and go ahead and wish you one. :)
     
  6. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Same back to you,Mr. grntitan.

    It is a day of rememberence in New Zealand and Australian countrymen who died in wars.

    Originally for those lost in WWI, later expanded for all wars.
     
  7. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    Chuch,,I agree,Ocare is as=backwards,we need a government that will address the cost factor for medical services,after that,go after the Legal Network and get it inline with cost also.


    Doug H.
     
  8. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Actually the un & under-insured concerns are a fraction of the huge costs of government regulations. Think about it; say 50 million uninsured, even if the gov paid every bill personally for the 15 million that abuse the system it couldn't cost 2 Trillion.

    The devil is in the details and the elites are counting on the fact that the American Dung Beetles won't do the math. What isn't Regs is greed - pure and simple.

    Kip
     
  9. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Standardizing payment isn't the way to go either, folks. This isn't an oil change or tire rotation... even with a "simple" appendectomy or tonsillectomy, these are still surgeries that has the life of the person in someone's hands. Standardizing payment would lead to sub-standard care.

    The devil is the fact that anyone with insurance does not understand the real costs of healthcare. And it isn't an easy onion to peel open. The reason that we see bills for $100,000 for an appendectomy is because that is what the hospital HAS to bill to the insurance to receive their "normal" payment. Most EOBs I have seen show a billed amount vs a paid amount (by insurance) have up to a 90% difference (e.g. hospital bills for $100,000, gets paid $10,000 and the rest goes into some magical vacuum somewhere). If they bill for something more reasonable, say $25,000, they would still only get reimbursed for 10% of the billed amount.

    Switch everyone to an HSA or FSA card, let patients pay for the care "out of pocket" and let the free market reign. "Prices" would come down real quick. Only problem is, EVERYONE would have to switched.

    The downfall of healthcare in the US started when health care insurance became an "automatic" perk of employment -- early 70s if my history is right. When the consumer has no idea of the true price of something, they can never clearly evaluate the value of the product or service they are receiving.

    Don't get me started on the effects on the pharmacy world. Insurance has all but completely ruined the "free-market" in that realm. Physician and hospital services are close behind, and will be in the same place in 5-10 years if the system continues.

    Good article on Forbes above..

    Sincerely,

    John Voliva, R.Ph.
     
  10. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    In an interview at Fox news, Jon Kyl (R-AZ) said that seniors on Medicare Advantage will soon be unhappy with Obama and ObamaCare. When the law passed, money was taken out of Medicare to fund part of ObamaCare. The money originally would have been used to partly offset the cost of Medicare Advantage for seniors. In October, when seniors elect to join/rejoin Medicare Advantage, they'll find their premiums (usually taken out of their social security checks) will be much higher. Fearing loss of votes from seniors, the administration has taken money out of another Medicare fund to delay the rise in premiums until AFTER the election. Presumably, then, seniors will have already voted for Obama when they get the sticker shock. Interview was aired on Channel 761 of Cablevision in NJ, a little after 10PM either 4/23 or 4/24. Chichay
     
  11. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    the featured video on Government spending on this site is a Real eye opener. 2.48 minutes set to easy graphs- there are some shocking numbers, so be ready.

    Kip
     
  12. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    Let me tell you. The medical device manufactures are having a heyday with this. They are estactic the Obamma care may go thru. They see money on the horizon.
    1st they have begun to hire temp. workers because the do not have paid insurance thru the companies. 2nd. The fines the will be imposed not to furnish part of the insurance is miniscual compared to what insurace on the companies part that is being paid. You will see full time temps. very soon. When the older fellows retire the their will no longer be furnished insurance thru the medical co's. I know I worked this industry for 45 yrs. The medica business is highly inflated by at the very least 1000%.I have seen these companies getting prepared for the Obamma care. They are hiring temps as fast as they can and replacing many of the oldtimeres full time ares. They will never be hired as temps. Wild Bill
     
  13. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't ocare impose excise fees on medical equipment? Where do we think that increase will get passed onto?

    As for all medical procedures being the same price...should a world renowned, very skilled surgeon be paid the same as a doctor schooled in Ghana? Shouldn't a hospital charge more if its entire medical staff were in the 1% of their medical classes?

    The Wall St. Journal has quite a write-up on rising costs. Its a couple of years old.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703787304575075843971534082.html
     
  14. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    John,

    You must be in the medical field of some sort. However, I'm not sure that I agree 100% with your comments.

    Our company has a high deductible insurance plan coupled with an HSA option. The HSA option is great in that it's not use it or lose it like our previous plan was, and it's portable.

    But what I've found, and it frustrates me, is that various medical providers have negotiated different rates with the various ins cos. A couple years ago my daughter needed an MRI on her ankle. The doctor referred her to his clinic of choice and the procedure was to cost us around $1000. I called another place and their charge for procedure was around $400 for our INS CO.

    I called the DR back and told him I wanted her to go to this other clinic. He said OK and she did. Problem was that he didn't clear this clinic through the INS CO and we received a bill for about twice the quoted priced because our INS CO denied the coverage, even though the entire cost was to be born by us via our deductible.

    My point is that I don't think the providers overbill to end up with a settlement they can take, but rather they negotiate a discount off their standard rate with various INS CO. The EOB shows the full rate and the discounted rate.

    Maybe the actual process lies somewhere in the middle.
     
  15. GBatch_25

    GBatch_25 Active Member

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    ONLY 2 organizations ????? Are you sure about that ?
    Dig deeper.

    Gene Batchelar
    Wheaton, IL
     
  16. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    These two supported Obamacare when it passed, npw they are walking back that support.

    Sure there are more groups and a lot of individual medical people unhappy, but the big political players like AMA are still there for Obama.

    Also, the media is still behind Obama, so they will not report too much, to keep him in a positive light.

    This story appeared in alternative news outlets.
     
  17. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    Whatever the anserw is its done for now. The supreme court has mades its ruling and more than likely the answer is inline with the administration. And that is what the medical mfg. industry wants. Wild Bill
     
  18. brett44

    brett44 Member

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    There are different charges for medicaid, medicare, and private insurance. It's well know that medicaid, especially, doesn't pay the full cost of services provided. Private pay picks up the difference. The difference being a hidden tax burden to support welfare recipients in the form of higher insurance premiums. I suspect that a hospital that does alot of Medicaid and Medicare work would have to charge alot higher price for the same procedure to a private pay patient.

    If you think this isn't fair, wait to the cost of Obamacare is transferred to those that still have the ability to pay.
     
  19. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Tom -- was in the same boat as you. And I agree, what medical providers charge is somewhere in the middle. My first explanation is a bit of over simplification because the whole situation gets very complicated very fast. Toss in the different levels of "payors" and it gets just plain dumb. I don't think any one person could completely grasp the whole system.

    Take pharmacy, for example. You have your patient & the ins company as the payors, right? Wrong! With almost 90%+ of the insurance companies out there, there is yet ANOTHER payor called a PBM in the middle. Then throw in the rebates the PBMs receive from the drug companies to have their drug listed on the "preferred" formulary. Now there are 4 payors. Throw in the federal & state governments... For a simple prescription, there can be up to 7 different entities dictating price & cost. And that's just pharmacy.

    As for my HSA comment -- at the present point, you are correct. We would have to hit a certain % (who knows what that would be? 50%? 75%?) for them to be the most effective. My main point is if the consumer was actually paying the WHOLE bill, medical costs across the board would come down dramatically. Once someone else starts picking up the tab, people don't care how much something costs.

    I can go more in depth about how PBMs are completely screwing over the independent pharmacy if someone would like to hear it....
     
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