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two eyes open I see two barrels

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by tom pond, Nov 16, 2010.

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  1. tom pond

    tom pond TS Member

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    I dont look at my barrel but I see it out of the corner of my eye, I dont focus on it, I focus on the target, after saying that when i focus on the target I see two barrels. If I look at the barrel I see two targets. If I patch my lens of my glasses It must be big enough to hide the barrel from my left eye (rh shooter) or my left eye tries to take over and then the right so the target "jumps". When I do an eye dominance test such as pointing at a distant object then alternate clossing each eye and see which eye is on the target changes depends because I see two fingers. What do you call this how do I correct? patching my lens almost defeats the purpose of using 2 eyes.
     
  2. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    look at the target( lock on to it)--shoot, shoot, shoot--your problem WILL go away
     
  3. jdsfarms

    jdsfarms Well-Known Member

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    Ha Ha Ha LOL ;o( Sorry it's not funny I know from personal experience,chances are it won't go away,try tape,magic dot barrel blinder and use whatever works for you.Jerry
     
  4. 4N6PE

    4N6PE Member

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    If you're not already doing so, try holding on the house at all stations, to get a clear unobstructed view with both eyes in the field. You should see one bead in backsight during the swing , while focusing on the target.

    Ned
     
  5. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    two eyes open I see to barrels

    First of all, stick your finger in the air at arm's length and focus on something in the distance. How many fingers do you see? TWO! So this is perfectly normal. However, this is the point. If you are seeing ANY barrels it's because you aren't focusing 100% on the target. It is impossible to see the barrel if you are focused on the target. The fact you ARE seeing the barrel means you are dividing your attention. I don't care how many barrels you see, IGNORE THEM. Look, if you were steering your boss' new Mercedes Benz from the dealer to his office, and your eyes were focused OUT THERE in front at traffic, would you care if you noticed that you were seeing 2 hood ornaments? Would it bug you and cause you to crash the car? No, you would effortlessly steer the car where it needed to go, and the fact you were seeing 2 hood ornaments you would simply ignore as utterly irrelevant. It's the same with your shotgun. STOP WORRYING about how many barrels you are seeing! It is IRRELEVANT! (yes I'm shouting) Unless you have a bonafide eye dominance problem, your problem will be solved when you stop worrying about barrels, pretty girls in summer dresses, that big delicious looking hot lunch, or anything else that isn't the target.
     
  6. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I've had this problem too many times. It usually takes me anywhere from 9 to 15 beers before it starts. Never tried to shoot that way but when the damn 2 lane roads turn to 4 lanes it can get hairy. I'll have to try the tape on the glasses next time.

    Matt
     
  7. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    wireguy- i cudnt have said it any better!!
     
  8. Schmidt Racing

    Schmidt Racing TS Member

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    Tom,
    I am new to this trap shooting thing and if you saw me shoot, you would definitely agree. Anyway, I have had the same problem. I also saw two barrels. So, I started to sight with one eye, then open the other eye and call for the rock. When I do this I only see one barrel. You might try this and see what happens. I would be curious to see if it works for you.
    Good Luck,
    Dick Schmidt
     
  9. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

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    Wireguy you might be on to something, but I disagree with the analogy of driving a car compared to shooting a shotgun. I understand you are not to pay attention to the barrel, because I don't. However, you have to be able to see and decipher which one is the correct front bead in your peripheral in order to know when to pull the trigger. If what you are saying is correct then why have a rib (high or low) or a front bead green, white or orange for that matter?

    Example, when you point your finger at something you are looking at the object your are referring to and not your finger. However, your finger is in your peripheral. There is a simple test to find out what eye is dominant. Simply point your finger at an object as if pointing your barrel and then close one of your eyes. You will find out what eye was doing the pointing and which is dominant.

    I am a two eye right hand shooter, but left eye dominant. Therefore I use the Magic dot system to assist me.

    Bryan
     
  10. Mismost

    Mismost TS Member

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    I agree with wireguy and I have the same problem...in fact I'm battling in my yearly quest to shoot both eyes open. I've learned some stuff.

    1. You may need to be higher on the gun

    2. You may need to hold much lower, get both eyes on the target, then go get it

    3. You must have a hard focus on the target HARD FOCUS

    4. You should not ever look at the barrel when you mount the gun...if you can not tell if the gun is mounted correctly by the way it feels, then work on your mount until you can.

    5. Use a soft focus at the target distance and allow your eyes to be still for a second before calling for the bird...then Hard Focus.

    6. Have your vision checked. You may be right eyed, but your left eye may be stronger.

    There a lot of very good one eyed shooters out...for some folks, just closing the off eye may be the easiest solution. Whatever you do, the hard target focus is a must.....it'll cure a lot of ills.
     
  11. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    "However, you have to be able to see and decipher which one is the correct front bead in your peripheral in order to know when to pull the trigger"

    You DON'T have to be able to see the bead at all. Let me quietly repeat that. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEE YOUR BARREL OR BEAD AT ALL!!!!! Most shooters would benefit greatly by removing it. One of the world's best shooters, I believe it's Richard Faulds of England, has no bead on his gun. If it isn't there, how can he possibly hit anything? Because simply, his hard eye focus on the target PRECLUDES THE POSSIBILITY that he would see the bead or the barrel anyway. He removed his bead to make the point that you aren't to look at the bead while shooting. It isn't a sight and it isn't there to be looked at! Wanna look at it? Fine, admire it while your gun is in the rack. When you walk to the line, forget it even exists.

    When you even THINK about your barrel or bead while you are shooting, let alone look at them, you are engaging in conscious mind activity. Successful clay target shooting is driven from the sub-conscious mind, that high speed computer between your ears that can calculate speed angle and distance faster than your conscious mind could in it's wildest dreams. In order to break targets your move to the bird MUST be driven from the sub-conscious. Your conscious mind CANNOT consistently do the work necessary to get the gun to that finite spot in that huge 3-dimensional arena where the 4 1/4" target is going to be when your shot string arrives. In order for the sub-conscious mind to step up and take over and drive the gun move, the conscious mind must be forced to yield it's dominant position as the common interface with your everyday walk through life. This is done by hard eye focus on the target. Hard eye focus on the target tells the conscious mind to sit down and shut up for a few seconds so the sub-conscious can take control. When you look at or think about your STUPID barrel or bead, guess what you are doing? You are THINKING! When you are thinking, guess which part of your mind is in control? Yea-aaaa! When you are THINKING about your stupid barrel or your stupid bead, you have just put that part of your brain that is LEAST capable of giving you success in charge of your move to the target. Stop looking at or THINKING about your BLASTED barrel or your blankety-blank BEAD! They are irrelevant to successful clay target shooting! If you stop THINKING about your barrel or your bead you will soon stop SEEING THEM altogether! When you are no longer seeing them, you are going to be HEARING the word LOST a lot less often.
     
  12. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    You need to retrain your brain. You have to help your brain use your right eye for aiming when you have both eyes open. I use the following method to accomplish this.

    The next time you shoot a practice round of trap, try this. On each staion shoot the first four birds with your left eye closed, shoot the fifth bird with both eyes open. If this helps go to three and two, and work your way to shooting all the targets with both eyes open. HMB
     
  13. yansica1

    yansica1 Member

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    I have had this since day one, a looong time ago and being right handed but left master eyed I tried all sorts of things including patches on lense and closing one eye. I honestly thought everyone saw two barrels at address point!!
    In the end the answer is it doesn`t matter. I shoot both eyes open off the wrong (right)shoulder with a left master eye and it got me as far as AAA in sporting clays.

    I don`t ignore the fact but merely turn it into a strength. When addressing a bird I always remember that in my case the left barrel does the shooting. Removing the bead is not necessarily an indication that Richard doesn`t ever look at his barrel, it is sometimes done to raise POI a tad. With or without a bead you still know where the end of your gun is.
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    tom pond - When you look at objects far away, both eyes converge on the same spot and you see only one image. When you look at object close (1 ft or less) you only use one eye, typically your dominant eye. If you hold up one finger at arms length and look at it, most will see one finger. Then if you move the finger closer to your nose, at some point you will see two fingers. For me, this happens at about six inches. This is normal.

    When looking down a barrel, the barrel is only aligned with one eye. Hopefully it is your dominant eye. If you look down your barrel with your recessive eye, at times your dominant eye will strive to also see the barrel and each eye will send a slightly different image to your brain and you will see two barrels. A little tape on your glasses is the simplest way to prevent seeing two barrels and it will also prevent cross firing.

    A Google search for eye convergence will give you a lot of information.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. trapster100

    trapster100 Member

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    The "point your finger at an object and close one eye" doesn't work when you see two fingers. Which finger do you use to point with? If you focus on which finger, then you see two objects.

    Maybe a release trigger would help.
     
  16. yansica1

    yansica1 Member

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    Surely 8`s before release?
     
  17. twopipe

    twopipe Member

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    were you cross-eyed when young ? you may have " lazy eye ", like me. My eyes do not look to the same place. see an opthamologist
     
  18. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Tom,


    My wife closes her eye. I use occlusion on my dominant lens and keep both open.


    Without occlusion, like you I see two fuzzy barrels in my periphery when shooting with both eyes open. I am not cross-eyed, I suspect neither are you.


    When occluded, I'm not very consciously aware of the existence of a barrel at all--much less two.


    I tried all the various gadgets on the barrel. They didn't work for me.


    When I close one eye, the target appears sharper than when I leave the off eye open with occlusion. None the less I shoot better with both open and one occluded.


    I really don't think the loss of depth perception using one eye is a liability. I do believe however using only one eye reduces the field of vision and results in a delay picking up and getting to the target. I had to learn how to trust my peripheral vision (yes with one occluded) while looking out in the field when I call for a target.


    If you know you are cross dominant you must do something about it!


    Experiment with the suggestions levied, and settle on one that seems to work best for you and stick with it for a protracted period of time to provide a sound basis to analyze your progress. I'm talking a couple of thousand targets--keep track of your scores! I use an Excel spreadsheet to record and graph my trends. Too many change things up too often and never know for sure what works and what doesn't in the long run.


    After I stated shooting Trap and figured out my cross dominance issue, it became evident why I was such a streaky pool shooter in the day missing easy angle shots for some, then unknown reason. I now know why.


    Phil Kiner has helped many understand better. He is very willing to help.



    Guy Babin
     
  19. tom pond

    tom pond TS Member

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    Guy Baban, That is the technique I am using, you put it to words perfectly. I can watch the bird and know I am looking at it with my off eye then close that eye and the target jumps ahead, other times I know that my right eye is looking at it and can close my left eye again and the target is right on, it just depends on whether it is a crossing target and from which side it is coming from, incoming and outgoing are not a problem. I guess my goal was to quit the patch all together to pick up those last couple of targets. Thanks everybody for their suggestions.
     
  20. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    For those that can, shooting with two eyes is better. For those that can't, do something else.
     
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