1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Turned Down Targets

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by moore5833, May 25, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. moore5833

    moore5833 TS Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    802
    I recently shot in a calcutta,and one of the shooters turned down three birds during his turn-two hard right,one hard left. each time he called for another target and shot. There was nothing wrong with the birds-or the release-at least that i could see. I felt these birds should have been called lost. Wanted to hear some other opinons on this. I have shot in many compitions,and my experiance has been if you call for a bird,unless its broke coming out,you shoot. TOO bad if my safety is on,i forgot to load my gun,a bug got on my rib exct. Any Thoughts???
     
  2. Milkbone

    Milkbone TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    406
    Was this a registered shoot?
     
  3. moore5833

    moore5833 TS Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Messages:
    802
    Not registerd shoot,just a club calcutta
     
  4. Milkbone

    Milkbone TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    406
    Apparently, the sponsors of the shoot condoned the turn downs. Nobody else's opinion much matters.
     
  5. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,594
    However, usually, ATA or PITA rules will govern a club shoot and it's, usually, posted or traditional. If so, the first two turn-downs could be classed as failure to fires (2 to each sub event) and the third if in the same sub event should have been called "lost."......Bob Dodd
     
  6. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,437
    Should be the scorers call. I'm sure your club is throwing regulation set targets. $hit like that makes for a bad day for everyone else. Can play tricks on your mind.

    Guy was probably on a post he doesn't like and was looking for gravy. The guy is a puss. Catch the guys name and don't squad with the guy again. You hate to do it but, you could belittle the guy in the club house about the incident when you are all sitting around slinging the BS but, that could backfire that your just crying about it. Probably a no win situation how you look at it.

    The next shoot just get it etched in stone that you guys ain't playing that crap on turned down targets and the legal targets are at the scorers discretion.
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Bob Dodd- In an ATA event if you voluntarily turn down any legal targets, they are lost. They are never Failures to Fire.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,287
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Pat, how about, I voluntarily turned down that (legal looking to you) target because it was slow or fast in my opinion coming out? :) Hap
     
  9. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,988
    This shit happens WAY too often, they're cheaters and they do it because they get away with it...

    John C. Saubak
     
  10. jakearoo

    jakearoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,652
    C'mon guys. We have had this discussion just short of 71/2 or 8s. The "failure to fire" rule allows it. It is a BS rule but it is what it is. Rule went into effect after voice pulls became the norm. After they were popular folks could not blame the puller for (imagined) slow or fast pulls.

    Many top shooters have always passed on targets that beat them. Just start a discussion about Daro Handy and see where that goes.

    Jake
     
  11. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,594
    But of course, Pat, but I've never seen it enforced in such a strict manner. And who would care to claim he could see in the shooters brain to tell what his motive was, eh?.....Bob Dodd
     
  12. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,782
    Jakearoo says that" After they were popular folks could not blame the puller for (imagined) slow or fast pulls."


    What in gods name makes you think that a voice pull is always on time? I have shot lots of voice activated pulls that were as bad as bad handpulling. If it's a slow pull I will turn it down and I don't care if it's a voice pull or not as it makes no diffrence! A slow pull is a slow pull. The method of delivery has nothing to do with it.

    To think that voice pulls have solved the problem of fast and slow pulls is very naive.Jeff
     
  13. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,626
    Rule #1 - You only have to shoot at targets you like.

    Rule #2 - When in doubt refer to Rule #1. HMB
     
  14. BT-100dc

    BT-100dc Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,487
    When are we going to change the rule which results in a lost target when someone fails to shoot because of a FLINCH? It makes no sense to me to allow even one. Should be, you call for it and it's a legal bird, then you bought it. Anyone out there agree with my conservative viewpoint? BT-100dc
     
  15. Hivoltfl

    Hivoltfl Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    539
    Location:
    north Florida
    BT-100dc you have my vote,

    Rick
     
  16. Big Az Al

    Big Az Al Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,353
    Location:
    near Tucson Trap
    A little over A year ago I shot on a squad that had a gent that if the bird was not in sight on the "P" of pull he turned it down. Watching him shoot that 100 birds, if the bird was not in sight on the "P" he was so out of time it was pityful.

    Should we have ragged him for being so selective on his releases?

    Should we not be able to to trun down a bird that is out of the house even as we are shaping the call Pull but before we have breathed out to make the sound?

    I can only speak for myself, but there are times when I don't hear squad members calling pull, or I hear someone on another trap call pull and think it was a squad member.

    I wasn't there so I can only imagine what happened or did not happen, so shoot for the fun of it, enjoy your successes and don't worry about other may or may not have done, and have fun.

    Al Lingham
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Bill- You want to go back to the rules we had a few years ago "If the bird is broke or the primer is dented it should be a "failure to fire". A slow pull would have to be pretty obvious. Anything else is "lost target". My humble opinion"

    That set of rules always made me nervous. If a gun with a release trigger did not go off, he had to keep the gun closed, walk back to the scorers chair, hole the loaded gun with the release trigger hanging, point the gun down and open the loaded gun with a hanging release trigger behind the other four shooters. One year at the Grand, it was decided that the scorer actually had to open the gun behind the other four shooters. That was worse. There are a few guns that half of the shooters and almost all of the scorers do not know how to open.

    I support safety first, and the failure to fire rule is an important safety rule that I have never seen abused.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,626
    Pat,

    Why didn't the scorer get out of the chair and check the gun on the firing line. Why would the ATA permit such unsafe behavior? Why would you permit such unsafe behavior? HMB
     
  19. Spanky

    Spanky Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,437
    BT-100dc, I agree ^.
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,542
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    BT-100dc

    "When are we going to change the rule which results in a lost target when someone fails to shoot because of a FLINCH? It makes no sense to me to allow even one."

    Have you ever had a problem with flinching? If not then you haven't got a clue what the frustration of a flinch is like.

    "2. When a whole target appears promptly after a contestant’s
    recognizable command and is within the legal limits of flight and the
    contestant voluntarily does not fire;"

    Obviously you don't understand the meaning of the word "voluntarily" as a flinch is not voluntary no matter what you believe!!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.