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TS 2000?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Chango2, Mar 27, 2009.

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  1. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    I was always curious; I saw some of those TS 2000 guns for sale. They look very similiar to the Silver Seitz. Are they the same or a different model of the Silver Seitz? If there are differences, what are they? Gets a little confusing..
     
  2. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    They are an exact copy of a Silver Seitz, but priced much better. Parts are interchangeable. Tony DeSimone has them made in Italy. I have one for sale on this website, brand new unfired,beautiful wood, adjustable rib and adjustable comb.Both triggers included plus spare springs, pins, etc. A Seitz to this specification would list for 16,600 USD. You can buy mine for 8995 USD.
    Joe Ongenars, Rockford,IL 815-633-8870h. 815-494-2500 cell.
     
  3. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    That is called BS . It may be a copy but a poor copy .
     
  4. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    EuroJoe, I am curious, how can they be an exact copy; are not patent issues involved? They sure look nice, but are they exactly the same in reliability and quality? Sounds like a great deal??
     
  5. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I doubt that anything on a single barrel trapgun would qualify for a patent. As to reliability, ask the people that shoot them. T.P.S. Has been shooting his for over a year without a failure of any kind. Look on my post: F/S TS2000, a fellow from AZ says he shoots one,good gun!!
    I doubt that if a shooter was blindfolded,he couldn't tell the difference between a Seitz, Cole, Alfermann, Bowen, Infinity, etc. and the T.S.2000.
    Needless to say, all these mfgrs are going to say theirs is the best, and I believe they are all excellent shotguns,and all very expensive, but who's to say??
     
  6. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Does anyone remember the Tom Moore guns . Mr. Moore built a trap gun that had a look very close to a Silver Seitz . I don,t think he built very many maybe four or five . I know of a Moore gun for sale and has been for sale a long time (cheap) . The reason it has not sold is no one will fix it if it needs anything . Someone made a cheap copy of the LJutic also (it sold well) I think it also was made in Italy .
     
  7. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    DB Bill, I assume you completely disassembled all these guns and ran metallurgical tests on them all. That way you can make that statement, otherwise it's just your opinion, biased by the price tag.
     
  8. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Now that is funny
     
  9. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Cannot a sharp tool and die maker tell the difference in the quality of smaller parts by looking at wear patterns? Sometimes I'd imagine that visual inspection must be done under magnification or via accurate masurement. If the specs stay the same after the same number of cycles as the "real" one...

    Also, how does Consumer's Union rate the various trapguns? (Kidding around...) but years ago, CU used to test pellet rifles and 22's as I recall. Years and years ago, when I was a kid.
     
  10. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    What is the material used to make a Bowen receiver? 4130? 4140? Unobtanium?
     
  11. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The TS2000 does not seem to sell as fast or hold their value like the other guns mentioned ... Personally, for my money the TS2000 is grossly over priced but they do usually have nice wood on them ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    It's all about labor costs. The labor is less expensive in Italy, so One can get high quality for less money than making something in limited production in the USA. The talent base in Italy is second to none.100 years of producing high quality guns, you know, cheap stuff like Perazzi,Fabbri, Bosis,Beretta, Rizzini, etc. Get Real !!
     
  13. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    "Get Real", how come you can't sell the one you have being as its brand new for what you say is about half what its worth ..? Maybe it is time for a reality check, but that would be on your part ... They are hard to sell and do not hold their value and the reason for that is _____ ..? I have looked at them since the first one was out and if they would of been a deal I would of had one but opted for a Perazzi instead ... I heard a rumor that some gunsmiths won't or wouldn't work on them because they are a copy of a Seitz gun and not the real thing, that could of changed being as they been around for a little while now ... They (Tony Desimone) had a lot of problems with the release triggers at one time, not sure if that has changed ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  14. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Bottom line is if you would like a Cadillac don,t buy a Chevy .
     
  15. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Wait a minute, Cadillac doesn't offer the Duramax engine!
     
  16. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    DB BILL, I shot a Bowen the other night, very nice shotgun. Feels and moves just like a T.S.2000. I've shot the one that T.P.S. has,not mine. I bought the gun on an impulse to resell to a Games shooter, but it didn't work out. Maybe not the smartest move I ever made, but then again, I don't have 10,000 tied up in a TM-1 either.
    I wasn't comparing the DeSimone to anything other than for for similarity and purpose. By the way, there is nothing wrong with Perazzi MT-6s either, and a Fabbri costs 10 times what a Bowen does. It's all about relative value,and what you want.
    I notice that none of the high priced guns are selling on this site, either, so I'm not losing any sleep over it.
    I do like your TM-1 though, and I would take it in on trade on the T.S.2000, say it and 6200 difference.
     
  17. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Starting to get funny here....
     
  18. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Tron: I saw some TS 2000 guns for sale at a shoot with plastic side windows. Kinda like one of the old Accutron watch models. Looked kinda neat. I also know that all things made in Italy are great and reliable. This is from experience driving a Fiat Topolino and owning some Brioni ties. All top quality and value.
     
  19. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    where you going to find notes that small??
     
  20. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    I was thinking about one at one time...

    [​IMG]

    Whiz
     
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