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TS 2000?

8K views 29 replies 8 participants last post by  Chango2 
#1 ·
I was always curious; I saw some of those TS 2000 guns for sale. They look very similiar to the Silver Seitz. Are they the same or a different model of the Silver Seitz? If there are differences, what are they? Gets a little confusing..
 
#2 ·
They are an exact copy of a Silver Seitz, but priced much better. Parts are interchangeable. Tony DeSimone has them made in Italy. I have one for sale on this website, brand new unfired,beautiful wood, adjustable rib and adjustable comb.Both triggers included plus spare springs, pins, etc. A Seitz to this specification would list for 16,600 USD. You can buy mine for 8995 USD.
Joe Ongenars, Rockford,IL 815-633-8870h. 815-494-2500 cell.
 
#5 ·
I doubt that anything on a single barrel trapgun would qualify for a patent. As to reliability, ask the people that shoot them. T.P.S. Has been shooting his for over a year without a failure of any kind. Look on my post: F/S TS2000, a fellow from AZ says he shoots one,good gun!!
I doubt that if a shooter was blindfolded,he couldn't tell the difference between a Seitz, Cole, Alfermann, Bowen, Infinity, etc. and the T.S.2000.
Needless to say, all these mfgrs are going to say theirs is the best, and I believe they are all excellent shotguns,and all very expensive, but who's to say??
 
#6 ·
Does anyone remember the Tom Moore guns . Mr. Moore built a trap gun that had a look very close to a Silver Seitz . I don,t think he built very many maybe four or five . I know of a Moore gun for sale and has been for sale a long time (cheap) . The reason it has not sold is no one will fix it if it needs anything . Someone made a cheap copy of the LJutic also (it sold well) I think it also was made in Italy .
 
#9 ·
Cannot a sharp tool and die maker tell the difference in the quality of smaller parts by looking at wear patterns? Sometimes I'd imagine that visual inspection must be done under magnification or via accurate masurement. If the specs stay the same after the same number of cycles as the "real" one...

Also, how does Consumer's Union rate the various trapguns? (Kidding around...) but years ago, CU used to test pellet rifles and 22's as I recall. Years and years ago, when I was a kid.
 
#12 ·
It's all about labor costs. The labor is less expensive in Italy, so One can get high quality for less money than making something in limited production in the USA. The talent base in Italy is second to none.100 years of producing high quality guns, you know, cheap stuff like Perazzi,Fabbri, Bosis,Beretta, Rizzini, etc. Get Real !!
 
#13 ·
"Get Real", how come you can't sell the one you have being as its brand new for what you say is about half what its worth ..? Maybe it is time for a reality check, but that would be on your part ... They are hard to sell and do not hold their value and the reason for that is _____ ..? I have looked at them since the first one was out and if they would of been a deal I would of had one but opted for a Perazzi instead ... I heard a rumor that some gunsmiths won't or wouldn't work on them because they are a copy of a Seitz gun and not the real thing, that could of changed being as they been around for a little while now ... They (Tony Desimone) had a lot of problems with the release triggers at one time, not sure if that has changed ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
 
#16 ·
DB BILL, I shot a Bowen the other night, very nice shotgun. Feels and moves just like a T.S.2000. I've shot the one that T.P.S. has,not mine. I bought the gun on an impulse to resell to a Games shooter, but it didn't work out. Maybe not the smartest move I ever made, but then again, I don't have 10,000 tied up in a TM-1 either.
I wasn't comparing the DeSimone to anything other than for for similarity and purpose. By the way, there is nothing wrong with Perazzi MT-6s either, and a Fabbri costs 10 times what a Bowen does. It's all about relative value,and what you want.
I notice that none of the high priced guns are selling on this site, either, so I'm not losing any sleep over it.
I do like your TM-1 though, and I would take it in on trade on the T.S.2000, say it and 6200 difference.
 
#18 ·
Tron: I saw some TS 2000 guns for sale at a shoot with plastic side windows. Kinda like one of the old Accutron watch models. Looked kinda neat. I also know that all things made in Italy are great and reliable. This is from experience driving a Fiat Topolino and owning some Brioni ties. All top quality and value.
 
#22 ·
EuroJoe:

If they in fact are an exact copy of a Silver Seitz, I think that they are up for a lawsuit, as I understand that AIM had to buy the protected design rights from Tom Seitzs' widow. Making an exact copy? I think that's called stealing.

Also, 'exactly the same' in that the receiver starts life as a block of stainless steel, then is machined, and then heat threated in addition to other steps? Barrels made from chrome moly steel?

From the picture, I will grant you they did a pretty good job of cloning the external appearance except there doesn't appear to be an adjustable comb. But until someone can prove they use the same levels of materials and manufacturing precision as AIM, I'd be hesitant to say they are the same.

And, you can't say the quality is the same just because it's made in Italy. Italy no doubt has extremely good craftsman in many fields, but I don't think they get paid 3rd world nation wages, so it's hard to believe the guns are cheap because of low labor rates.

Just one guy's opinion.

Pete
 
#24 ·
Whiz White I don,t think the Bowen is a copy in every respect but close . I have put the Silver Seitz and Bowen side by side . The fact is little if anything will interchange . I believe the Silver Seitz is as close or closer to the original Tom Seitz gun as the Bowen is .
 
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