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Trouble with New Gold Medal hulls

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Quick 1, Jan 18, 2011.

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  1. Quick 1

    Quick 1 Active Member

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    I had a new ribbed Gold Medal hull split after two reloadings last week. Several other hulls in the box streched on one side as you can see in photo. I purchased these shells at the Grand. I have reloaded some from the same flat up to six times without incident. It was cold out, but I keep my shells inside until I shoot. They were loaded with recipe from alliant website. 19 1/2 grains of promo, federal 209a,federal 12S3wad, and 1 1/8 once of shot. Chamber looked fine and no problems with other brand hulls that nite. Any idea's what caused this? Crimps to deep? Thanks Mike
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  2. porky

    porky TS Member

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    12guage shells need a good crimp to insure that the powder is burned correctly. I don't think that it is your crimp. Actually the crimp looks pretty good. I suspect the fact that Federal went from a smooth sided hull to a ribbed wall leads me to believe that Federal is cutting costs. Also, regardless of the website recipe, loading 19.5 grains of Promo is a bit of a hot load for singles. Try 17.5 or 18 grains. It will still get you there in plenty of time and your hulls will remain intact a bit longer. That being said, the weather, if cold, had a factor in the seperation of the hulls. I shoot in the North and temps are sometimes below 0 with wind chill. If the gun is in this weather, the wind chill will not let it get warm. I place the shells in my coat pocket with a throwaway 8 hour hand warmer with them. It helps.
     
  3. Quick 1

    Quick 1 Active Member

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    Thanks for reply. I do use 17 1/2 grains of promo for single's, but these were handicap loads. Recipe stated 1200fps. Shells were in pouch and then I moved them to pocket five at a time. Mabee they did get too cold, and I will try cutting powder back a little bit. Mike
     
  4. porky

    porky TS Member

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    I thought that using promo for handicaps wasn't really good for the gun or you. I like titegroup. 18 grains will almost replicate the nitro 27. Using the tgt12 or downrange equivalent wads will cut chamber pressures significantly. Felt recoil is a lot less than the 19.5 of promo. Green Dot, Int Clays works well also. Promo or Red Dot is primarily a 16 yd or doubles powder, or at least I thought that it was.
     
  5. old folks

    old folks TS Member

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    Some of us have used Red Dot for everything for 60 yrs. and 21 gr. in paper hulls card and fiber wads. It still works for me.
     
  6. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    Your hulls were stressed. 19.5 grains of Promo is the very top end of pressure limits, even more so if it drops a little heavier. I trust you're checking your powder weights with a scale and not depending on just a recommended powder bushing to determine powder weight. My hcp. loads with Promo in a STS avg. 17.8 (CH209, DRWJ) and are really quick. Try 18.5 verified by scale.

    Buz
     
  7. Quick 1

    Quick 1 Active Member

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    I have used promo for everything since returning to shooting three years ago with no ill effects until this. I'm not saying it's the best powder out there, I would like to try some titegroup. I have read it makes nice loads with the Nitro 27 hull which is what I load the most of. Thanks for response, Mike
     
  8. Hatshooter

    Hatshooter TS Member

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    the latest scoop I heard from a federal sales rep was that federal was going back to the ribbed hull in the gold medal & they were going to a tapered case on the inside. I haven't seen any yet. Promo does not impress me under 40F with any hull, primer,wad combo...
     
  9. Quick 1

    Quick 1 Active Member

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    Buz,
    Yes, I do check my powder charges,especially after opening a new container of promo. I have loaded this combination for a while with no trouble, but will take your advice and cut the powder charge back. When I load STS or Nitro 27 handicap loads I do use a smaller powder charge as called for on Alliant's website. Thanks, Mike
     
  10. Art D

    Art D Member

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    I had very good luck loading 18.5 clay and I use 1OZ DR wad and there crimp perfect. Try the 1oz wad no matter what power and you will see the results.
     
  11. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Wads, powder charge, temperature or crimp depth have nothing to do with this issue. Federal has been having this problem with their smooth hulls. More than one has similarly sheared off on brand new shells. Be very careful with this hull!!
     
  12. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I have loaded tens of thousands of both the ribbed and smooth Federal Gold Medal hulls with zero problems.

    I have had two STS hulls go "zinger" with the tube above the brass head separate and the entire hull, wad and shot column go down range. These hulls had been loaded many, many timed and were loaded with 16.5 grains of F@, TGT12 wad, Cheddite primer and 1 oz of shot.

    I think that is you reload any hull too many times, your possibility of a hull failure greatly increases. The original AA's of the 1960's I shot had more than a few case splits.

    As an old "paper" shooter, I have the habit of ensuring that I remove a complete hull after every shot. I had hundreds of the old "papers" separate ahead of the brass as I loaded them too many times. They still shot good.

    I load with 19.3 grains of Green Dot, either a Federal (cold weather) 209A or a Nobel Sport primer (summer), Claybuster 12S3 clone wad and 1 1/8 oz. of 7 1/2 or 8 magnum shot.

    This load is around 1125 fps and is very similar to the original Federal Extra-Lite load of the 1990's. The new Extra-Lite is about 25 fps slower.

    The load shoots very soft in my 8 1/2 pound 870 TC and absolutely smokes targets.

    Many shooters use size 8 shot or smaller all year. I like 8's in the summer and 7 1/2's when its cold or windy.

    I bought 5 flats of the new Gold Medal plastic ribbed shells at last years Grand. I don't think Federal loads the smoothies anymore. I do not think that the new ribbed hulls are tapered. At the Grand, the Federal rep commented that the change was being made because many shooters preferred the older ribbed hull over the smooth hull. He acknowledged that there had been a few problems but that he thought that these failure were due more to the chamber dimensions of certain high end guns. I have had zero problems with several different barrels on three 870's, an 1100 TB and an 11/87 Premier trap.

    IMO, its hard to wear out a Federal hull. I load about a thousand at a time and will shoot that thousand up and then reload that thousand again. I put 7 1/2's in smoothies and 8's in ribbed hulls.

    I have some of the old ribbed hulls that go back to the early 1990's that are well worn and almost black. I load these with 1 oz. of 8's, 12S0 wad and 17.5 grains of E3. This load is around 1180 fps and really smokes targets at the 16 yard line from my full choke 870 TC. I can shoot this load at 27 yards or 35 yards and it still breaks targets well.

    I also load the STS hull and use E3 powder for an ultra clean load for my 1100's but the Federal Plastic hull is my favorite.

    Ed Ward
     
  13. Ted K.

    Ted K. Member

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    About a year ago, I had a Federal Gold Medal split just above the brass, and the casing went down the barrel and stopped at the choke. Very hard to get out. This was a brand new shell from the factory - not a reload. Federal replaced all 10 flats I had bought. (They also threw in two extra flats for good will; I was quite satisfied with the way they dealt with the problem.)

    FWIW, I don't think your problem is the reload recipe. It's the shell itself.

    Ted K.
     
  14. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Ted K is not alone!!
     
  15. chikeneyes

    chikeneyes TS Member

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    18.9 gr red dot paper case c-1 wad and fed 209 primer 1200 fps and the best shooting shell out there This is the factory spk Also it is now to costly to shoot it can be duplicated Red dot is a great HDCP powder
     
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