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Tried to help a new shooter today.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by joe kuhn, May 24, 2009.

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  1. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Ok, this guy has been around the club about once a week and he is struggling. He's bead watching. He told me when he first came out a guy told him to 'bead it'. I talked about watching the target and seeing the gun come across his focus point. Gave him the hammer analogy.

    We shot targets on 3 with regular oscillation. I shot a few. He shot more. I stood behind him and let him talk about what he was doing. We checked his eye dominance which was fine - right handed, right eye clearly dominant. He said he thinks his off eye was trying to see the target. I suggested he get his glasses checked. It's been a year since he was in to see the doc. When his shells were gone he shot some of mine. By the time he was done, he got 6 straight which he said he has never done before. Then I shot a few and he shot the last two. He missed the first and got the second. It's important to do it the right way, stop and go back and do it the right way again. This is remediation.

    Next time I see him I'm going to suggest he shoot things with his pointer finger as he's driving. Come from beyond the target, like a zero in a speed limit sign, lock on with eyes, and swing through. It's a double awareness kind of skill. Eyes are on the target, but you're aware of the finger coming across and popping it. I think it's a pretty good drill.

    Thanks, Joe
     
  2. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Hope he doesn't wreck shooting speed limit signs. You get a gold star for helping the newbee. Bulge.
     
  3. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Ok, better idea: go for a walk and shoot birds with your hands. Focus on the bird with your eyes and practice being aware of your pointer finger peripherally. Now I have something to do while Johnny is fishing.
     
  4. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Here's another drill. Have the shooters just watch targets and descibe the angle. If they can do this, you're sure they're watching the target.
     
  5. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Sitting here trying to figure out what the hell you are wanting?! Attaboy, support or what?! Let me know as I will give an attaboy! Tom Rhoads
     
  6. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Just discussing Tom. If you have nothing to say, that's ok. I think it's important. Without some help, this guy wouldn't last long.
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Joe, continue attempting to help these new shooters as you are. Most leave long before getting hooked on the sport. If we don't help them, who will? Tell him to bring more shells next time for even more fun?

    EE, do you recommend a pro's clinic for all the new shooters you meet at the club? This guy didn't have enough shells with him to learn much from? Spending $600 bucks for a clinic before he knows whether or not this is the game for him? I think not!

    Hap
     
  8. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Ok, I'll fess up on this. I've got my eye on the local trap class held by the Park District. The current teacher will retire some day and I'd like to tune up my teaching skills and possibly teach the class, but I can't do that without some good experience.

    Somebody does have to get the new folks started so they make it to a pro class, which we actually discussed while shooting today. He said he heard of a one-on-one trainer that charges $2k a day. Told him about clinics of 10 students for about $250, but I do think that is a stretch for somebody who's just starting.

    I'm talking about this on the side with one of Kay's ex-assistants and my own shooting coach.

    Am I teaching something that is wrong?

    As I teach it seems to be helping my own shooting.

    There's alot going on when you shoot and I think there's room for improvement when introducing someone brand new to the sport. This guy interpreted 'bead it' as 'look at the bead'. We can do better than that.

    EE - I'm just explaining what's happening here. I often don't have time to set up much context in my threads, sorry. I do believe this is important.
     
  9. Old Texas Marine

    Old Texas Marine Member

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    Joe,

    You wrote:

    "As I teach it seems to be helping my own shooting."

    There is an old saying that goes, "You never learn until you teach."

    Congrats on helping someone,

    HBT
     
  10. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Yes, and the most important thing about teaching is to present something with the intended interpretation only. That is really hard to do. You have to know your topic extremely well and be willing to change when you fall short.
     
  11. Phil E

    Phil E TS Member

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    Joe, I'm with Hap, I have a whole lot of respect for someone who'll spend his own personal time out there sharing his hard-won skills with a beginner, no matter what the sport. You have the trap knowledge, so aren't teaching bad habits, which really matters. Those who are volunteer firearms instructors know where you're coming from, why you're doing it, and the value of what you're doing here. Phil E
     
  12. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Thanks Phil and Hap. I think we need a better bridge for the brand new shooter, to get him/her to level where a pro clinic or dvd will be worth it.

    Anyway, what do you think of my Bird Drill? I think they fly erratic enough to make 'eyes on' adjustments to gun position (hands) a useful practice tool. The bird will change direction slightly and you'll have to adjust, but you'll know when you're 'drilling' him thru your peripheral vision. He'll change again and you have to adjust. We only get one chance per clay target, several for each bird flying by. In a class, it would be ok. In the park, people might think you're crazy, but who cares.
     
  13. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Joe: Have him pattern his gun. Make sure it is pointing where aimed. Many beginners buy such cheap guns that you wonder how they can hit anything. Set the trap machine on straight aways and stand on station 3. Have him shoot a full session from there or until he knows where his gun is shooting and where he is breaking the target... then move half a station and repeat. Give him a break so his shoulder does not give out. Build in success. Good job! You get ONE ATTA BOY = wipes out 10 A SHUCKS [clean version]. Fred
     
  14. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Will do. The one thing I don't like about patterning is you're staring at the dam bead if you line it up with the dot on the paper. This should be changed. Look at the dot and see your bead peripherally as it moves to the dot. Pow.

    Exactly what perpheral vision is has become apparent to me. It's when you see something that you're not focused on at the moment. I knew that, but I'v always thought of peripheral vision as something way out there on the edge of your field of view. It can be near your focus point as well and that is where the target is broken. Another example of learning something through teaching.

    Keep looking at the target even if it's a dot on the paper!
     
  15. Phil E

    Phil E TS Member

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    Peripheral vision is everything that isn't in the central hard-focus area. That central area is really small. We talk so much about soft-focus because there's a lot of danger getting into a hard-focus too soon (like, jumping to that front bead.) For eye stuff, I particularly like Wayne Martin's book "An Insight to Sports," and find myself re-reading in it a lot (same as with Rollin's gun-fitting book.) We need hard-focus on the leading edge to center-hit, but teach ourselves to stay out of it until just the right moment. Like zooming a telephoto lens. Phil E
     
  16. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    No line bifocals enforce a central focus point. Everything else is fuzzy so you must point your nose at what you want to see. Hated them. Took them back and got distance only instead. Maybe I should have tried shooting with them first.

    We zoom in to see the target, but stay loose enough to see the bead peripherally. Amazing machine. A great study.

    One thing I didn't like about Rollin's book is it's academic approach. He studies each feature of a gun separately and tells how it's related to all the others. When a stock fitter does his craft he follows a procedure: first he fits x, then y... This way everything falls into place. Of course there's trouble-shooting and you need to know how things are related, but the book doesn't give you an overall procedure. I'm happy as a clam with my DeVault fitted stock, so I haven't paid attention to fitting for quite a while. This makes me hesitate to get your recommended eye book. I know the pieces I need are in there, but where?

    Isn't hard focus really like seeing the nose on my face when you're talking to me rather than my whole face? (I stole this) You see the window for emerging targets, then the target, then the gun come to the focal point, wham.
     
  17. tad houston

    tad houston TS Member

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    Joe,

    Since you identified your intent,

    "OK, I'll fess up on this. I've got my eye on the local trap class held by the Park District. The current teacher will retire some day and I'd like to tune up my teaching skills and possibly teach the class, but I can't do that without some good experience."

    I would suggest you take advantage of one of the many ATA/NRA Shotgun Coach certification schools that have been set up around the country for certification of the youth coaches in the AIM and SCTP ranks.

    I personally found much of the class more of a reinforcement of what I was already doing but there was plenty of new material as well. On top of that, and more to your situation, you would be credentialed by a nationally recognized program. That should help you if and when the opening you mention would come up.

    There have been several advertised here on TS and you can also go to the ATA site and click on the ATA Shooting Coach logo then look down the links for "NRA/ATA Trap Coach Schools", hopefully there will be one near you soon, or email Edie Fleeman at the ATA and ask if you can be notified when one does come up near you.

    I will also put in a second for both Wayne Martin's book "An Insight to Sports," and Rollin's gun-fitting book. Also BJ McDaniel's "Break 'Em All", just remember to use the knowledge you gain from these but don't teach it. In other words your student really doesn't need to know the intimate details of why you are telling them to do a specific thing as much as they need to understand what it is you are asking them to do.

    Initially I tried to "teach" all that I knew and that was not a good idea. There will be some that want to know the why behind the how, but they will let you know when they are ready for that.
     
  18. joe kuhn

    joe kuhn Furry Lives Matter TS Supporters

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    Mr. McDaniel's web site has quite alot in it. Will be investigating...

    Thanks, Joe
     
  19. brownk80

    brownk80 Member

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    Have him shoot targets without a shell in the gun. Use a snap cap and have him shoot all 25. Without the recoil he can begin to focus on the bird and see what he is doing if he is "missing". Teaches people to look at the target. Congratulations and thank you for being the kind of person who would try to help someone who is struggling as we all have.
     
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