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Trapshooting and Credit Cards

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by oleolliedawg, Jan 4, 2011.

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  1. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Got to talking to the bartender at the local gin mill last night about business and the lack of at that formerly busy establishment. We came to a sort of agreement that a big part of less business was the older owners reluctance to accept credit cards. Business and younger people seem to patronize all the surrounding establishments to a much greater degree.

    Along the same lines, I called #1 son on the weekend and asked if he wanted to go trapshooting. He said "sure dad, but I don't have any cash-you buy and I'll shoot". Not that that's so unusual.

    Putting this all together we can see that we've obviously become a cashless society and Trapshooting has failed to move in the direction of accepting credit cards. You can also see why Sporting Clays courses are kicking our ass as most of the newer ones also accept credit cards. Flame away!!
     
  2. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    The option money in particular used to be a problem for the club if shooters paid for registered trapshooting with a credit card, but I haven't looked into this recently.

    The bank would charge the club a fee on each credit card transaction, say three percent. The ATA Rules say the club can't take more than one half percent from the option pool for administrative expenses, and all shooters have to be charged the same target and option fees.
     
  3. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    I beleive that NSC in San Antonio was taking Cards for all events, and options as well. Maybe they cut a deal with the card companys. That or are paying out of their take of the entry fees.

    Bob
     
  4. powderburn

    powderburn Member

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    Hi!
    My wife and I have recently (since last Feb.) gone to cash only. No more credit cards for us. It's weird. But, it forces you to live below your means and not rack up stupid bills. We got tired of "stupid" bills. When you have "stupid" bills, you have no money. We got tired of that. We started Dave Ramsey logic and went thru Financial Peace University. It is a true eye opener. We have learned that the best trap gun in the world......the best car in the world.........the best refridgerator in the world........its all "stuff". You can always catch up later and pay with cash. Early 1900's logic. And it's working!
     
  5. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The fact is more and more business's are gearing up to accept credit cards as opposed to and rather than cash ... Its a sign of the times and something they call progress ... I have checks, cash, and credit cards so it does not matter to me one way or the other ... I charge things and pay off the card at when I get the bill so whats the difference, on some cards I even get a 5% rebate on all purchases for using them ... It all comes out the same in the end ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  6. sernv99

    sernv99 Active Member

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    I use my check card almost all the time....I don't like carrying around a lot of cash in my wallet. If my wallet goes missing, my cash is lost forever (most likely)....with a check card or a credit card, your "money" is not lost, as long as you report it within a reasonable time limit.

    Addtionally, i get cash back and airline bonus miles with my credit card. If you pay your bills on time each month and have a zero balance, that's "free" money the credit card company is giving you. Unfortunately, most people procrastinate and let the balance slip a month...then two months...then 6 months...then a year, etc. If you have the discipline to pay off your balance each month, you can make out good with the free airline miles and such.
     
  7. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    I agree with Dawg. How many businesses run on cash or checks only? With money tighter than ever we should be making it easier for people to part with their money not more difficult.

    When I ran into credit card problems 30 years ago I had to cut them up and use cash or checks. My spending dropped dramatically. I was out of debt within 18 months and learned a lesson. Make it easy to buy goods/services, and many people will spend more than they otherwise would. It is the age of instant gratification.

    One way to address the rule is to have two payment options. Much like a gas station - a cash price and a credit card price. The shooter can elect his payment method and all shooters (electing that payment method) pay the same amount. Making a formal rule change may take quite some time but is there anything in the rules to preclude a different price for credit card transactions. My position is that if there is not a rule that forbids something, and the action does not harm the spirit of the sport or any participants then it is allowable. (MTA Tom, where is the wording about "all shooters have to be charged the same target and option fees" - thanks)

    Don Verna
     
  8. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    My kids and wife are into this cashless society, debit cards instead of checks or cash (little use of credit cards) from a morning coffee to the weeks groceries slide the plastic through the machine and record in the book.
    I'd like to see more trap clubs go the debit card route, I think the lines would be shorter and much quicker than waiting for someone to fill out a check.
     
  9. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Don

    ATA Rules, Section III, B, 2: "All shooters must be charged the same target and option fees. An exception may be made for special category shooters, (i.e., charging Junior and Sub-Junior shooters half price)."
     
  10. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    In 1958 my parents purchased their first home for $12,900.00. My father brought cash to the closing. He was a nickel short after paying all fees and he told the loan closer he would go back home to get the nickel. The guy threw in the nickel out of his own pocket. My dad always said to me, if you can't pay cash, save up until you have the money.

    Over the years I didn't listen to him. I was charging trips, shooting, reloading supplies etc. Before I knew it I owed $15,000.00. I worked two full time jobs for two years to pay this charged card bill off.

    My son is 29 and never carries a dime on him. Everything is on credit cards, check cards, etc. With me being a retired from the banking industry I told him be careful.

    I learned the hard way, either I pay cash, or I go without.

    Steve Balistreri
     
  11. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    I'll not flame or argue with oleolliedawg as to why "...clays are kicking our ass..." but here's a point I've made a number of times here and I''ll do it again.

    How many of y'all remember the mid 70s when we were paying $12 per event (100 birds) for registered trap and there was enough cash there to provide "added money" to the purses and to finance significant trophies? Well those days are certainly over and it would take, in December of 2010, just under $60 to have the same purchasing power. When do any of you think we will ever see trapshooting revert to the days that were and come up with $60 per event?

    The reason Clays is kicking butt, IMHO is that clays caters to those with the cash to finance their guns, sport cars, golf carts, and such who are willing to cough up $40 or $50 just to ride their carts around a fun course and have their scores registered. What other group can buy top dollar guns, premium shells that are left in the bushes, trick 4 wheel carts for gettin' around, and so forth. Clays is a fun game that caters to those that have some free cash while trap, I regret to say, has turned into a game for many that plain can't afford to put up the money it would take to equal the cost of shooting from early times. The complaints about cheap trophies and "no money to win" continue with the trap crowd but it's a rare shooter that is willing to part with the money it would take to resemble trapshooting of even the 70s let alone many years before that when shooters played their game in suits and ties. It really has nothing to do with credit cards......breakemall.....Bob Dodd
     
  12. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    Know one fellow who bought his home on a credit card and paid it off in full when the bill came at the end of the month.

    .
     
  13. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    I try to put all purchases on my Cabelas card. Guess what? Sure cut my ammo expense way down due to rebates. I make it a point to pay it off, but sometimes an emergency auto repair etc. keeps it from being paid off. Then it carries over a bit. There is a little bit of gambling in this.

    But...time is money and there is no debtors prison. And yes, I use cash a good deal too. Each has advantages, plastic and "real" money.
     
  14. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I cannot remember the last time I paid interest to any credit card company or bank, have not paid interest on a mortgage in over 35 years, thats not going to change in the future if I can help it ... I have a debit card, a bunch of credit cards, carry cash and a gun, and checks so I will pay any way they want to be paid, makes no difference to me ... I pay off the cards every month without fail and I like to be able to carry that much money and not carry a dime if I don't want to ... This is a society of convience and debit cards, credit cards, and the like are all a part of it and will only get to be more and more a part of it as time goes by, like it or not ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  15. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Bob dodd, not really sure if Sporting Clays is that much more expensive than Trap. I'm looking here at the PA State Shoot program and I see $31/100 targets with fees. Most of the better Sporting Clays courses are around $35/100. So few shooters now play options that it's a non-issue.

    I guess what I'm saying is "business is business". If the majority of the people pay everything with plastic where does that leave Trapshooting!!
     
  16. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    Andy,

    I agree with you (pretty much). But what I would really rather see is the acceptance of check (debit) cards for shooting trap. I use that as much as I possibly can. It's the only way I buy gasoline for example. Some people here, as stated above, prefer credit cards for various reasons, and that's fine. I would just prefer to swipe the check card for shooting trap, and writing checks is just a pain in the ass.

    Respectfully,

    Jon Reitz
     
  17. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    MTA Tom, thanks for pointing out where the rule is located. Without knowledge of why the rule is there (possibly to avoid discrimination??) it speaks specifically to allowing some categories to shoot at reduced cost.

    Does the rule preclude having a fee for "cash" customers that is different than "credit" customers? (I do not think so.) If a customer prefers to pay more for the convenience of using a credit card how does this negatively impact other shooters, the hosting club, or the ATA?

    The "intent" of the rule comes into play. Most rules are made to "level the playing field", insure fairness and maintain order. I wonder what the intent of this rule is? It seems a stretch to infer it is to discourage flexibility in payment methods. But I see how clubs that would refuse to take credit cards could lose to clubs that do.

    The problem is option money as that 3% comes out of the "profit" of the hosting club. Thus, there is no/little incentive for a club to "fund" the 3% on option money. The real "losers" are those playing the options.

    It seems more likely that someone will play the options with a credit card (no pain) than peeling off 10's and 20's from the wad in their pocket. But, it may have less impact at bigger shoots as most of us (dummies) pay by check and do not see the cash leaving our pockets.

    Don Verna
     
  18. davetrack

    davetrack TS Member

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    Credit Cards should be accepted at all major shoots especially. The fee they lose is very negligible. They could get a card company to take it for about .3 %. The shoot could eat the difference and make it easy for all to shoot.

    IMHO

    Dave
     
  19. Mr.M

    Mr.M Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    The credit card companies are the ones behind the "no difference in price" rules for a purchase made with either cash or a card. In the old days, we could post a price difference with a higher price if using a card to absorb the "merchant fees" charged by the banks or card processors. The card companies cried "foul", saying that the higher price discouraged people from using their cards, thereby inflicting severe financial distress upon the card companies.

    Most card companies will no longer provide merchant account services to any organization that charges a higher price for a card transaction. Some have adjusted all prices upward by the amount of the "merchant fee" then offered discounts to clients paying with cash. Short term work-around that worked in some cases, not in others.

    The sad news is that most buyers won't even ask for a cash discount because we've all become so accustomed to the ease of plastic. Off to the dentist in the morning where they offer (and I accept) a ten percent discount for immediate payment with cash or check.

    Good thread, Andy,

    Mike Mann
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    3% of a $30 entry fee is less than a buck.

    P3AT, plenty more Sporting shooters are recreational only therefore the $35/100 more reflects that number!!
     
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