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Trap target angles??

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mt92, Mar 24, 2010.

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  1. mt92

    mt92 Member

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    I was curious if anyone could tell me what are the max angles that a target is thrown in American trap?
    Is it 47 deg. each way of center?

    Thanks
     
  2. pheasantmaster

    pheasantmaster Well-Known Member

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    This aught to get a few of the ole boys fired up again...
     
  3. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

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    47 would be awesome, that'd sort out some averages. same pecking order but more difficult.

    the correct answer is 17*
     
  4. Bobby 47

    Bobby 47 TS Member

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  5. 1atatime

    1atatime TS Member

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    Given the schematic above, wouldn't that allow for a 22 degree spread? I think 34 degrees may be the so called "2 hole" position that is now largely used.
     
  6. Bobby 47

    Bobby 47 TS Member

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    The schematic was sent to me, along with other info. regarding the set up of a regulation size ATA trap field,by ATA HQ.,not more than a month ago.
     
  7. willing

    willing Member

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    The minimum is 17 eaCH side of center,max 27 each side of center. According to latest ATA trap rules.

    Bill
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    That diagram is probably older then mose folks posting here. Hap
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Bill- My rule book agrees with your posted numbers.
    Bobby- If you got that diagram from the ATA office a month or so ago, could you please tell me who sent it to you? I think a call to the office by me would be in order.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Once again everyone has changed the original question from what is actually being asked to what they think the rule actually reads. The OQ was,

    "I was curious if anyone could tell me what are the max angles that a target is thrown in American trap?"

    This is what I find in the rulebook under flights and angles unless it is else where in the book they only give minimum angles not maximum angles.

    In Singles shooting the trap shall be so adjusted that within the normal
    distribution of angles as thrown by the trap, the right angle shall not be
    less than 17 degrees measured to the right of center (3BF), and not
    less than 17 degrees measured to the left of center (3BF), with a total
    angle between outside target limits of not less than 34 degrees. (See
    Diagram II) Under no circumstances shall a Standard Model 1524
    trap be set in less than the #2 hole. Any other trap machine shall be
    adjusted so as to throw not less than equivalent angles. Where terrain
    allows, a visible stake must be placed on the centerline of the trap on
    the arc of a circle that has a radius of 50 yards and its center is Point
    B (Point F, Diagram II).

    Again they are talking not less than(minimum)as far as a max there doesn't seem to be one. At least not that I have found in the rulebook if someone else can find a max please post it location. I would like to read it.

    Bob Lawless
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Bob- Diagram II you mentioned is labeled as the legal target area (page 52). Points D and H illustrate the legal maximum angles.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. mkstephen

    mkstephen Active Member

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    Bobby 47,


    The trap layout you displayed was for the old '3 hole' - 22deg left - 22deg right for a total of 44deg.


    The current rules call for a 17deg left - 17deg right for a total of 34deg. This is equivelent to a '2 hole' target.


    Michael Stephenson
     
  13. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    The ideal target angle regardless of the new specs is 27 degrees max angle is allowed, which is the 3 hole target settings and an angle in the early target rules allowed for the target to go a few degrees beyond the 27 degrees.

    The 2 hole target rule 17 degree R&L =34 Degrees to me are baby soft targets.

    Real men shoot 3 hole targets, w/1200 fps max shells like the good ole days when trapshooting was a challenge, and there was money to be made, bigger payouts, more shooters, since the 2 hole target was allowed trapshooting has gone down hill.

    The clubs I shoot at throw a max 30 degree target for buddy shoots and 52yd plus targets. Our shoots are growing more shooters every shoot and we shoot 3 man buddies to handle the larger turnouts.

    Most of these shooters have given up on registering targets and are enjoying our sport more of buddy shoots, where in a 60 bird program calcutta pays 40-30-20-10 there is money to be won.

    They do not throw BABY TARGETS or GIMMEE TARGETS. just old fashioned 3 hole+
    targets.

    There is a big shoot in Kentucky every year night before Thanksgiving it is a
    60 bird shoot shot in 6 Ten bird events, there are chances for 7 wins, one for each 10 bird event and the total 60 bird, I have seen the 10 bird events pay more than $500 each, and the shoot off area is about 45-50 yards distance.

    I enjoy this shoot and so do many registered shooters that come more than 175 miles for the shoot.

    They come from Indiana, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and southern Michigan.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  14. tgs1420

    tgs1420 TS Member

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    I have a buddy that thinks like this. The max angle is better compition and the minimum gets better scores. The good shooters will win at either setting but most shooters want better scores. I think the directors of a club should make a choice that has the club throw more targets.
     
  15. Bobby 47

    Bobby 47 TS Member

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    Sorry gents, that diagram i posted earlier was wrong.ATA must have sent me an older one.With some on-line investigation of the ATA rule book (pages 56,57)shows most desirable angle 17 degrees left or right of center line.Maximum angle 27 degrees left or right of center line. Cheers Bobby
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Pat I guess what is giving me the problem is that you say that the legal max angle is as illustrated in Diagram II.

    Doesn't that contradict the part of the written rule where it say,

    "Under no circumstances shall a Standard Model 1524 trap be set in less than the #2 hole. Any other trap machine shall be adjusted so as to throw not less than equivalent angles."

    Again that is saying that if it is 2 hole equivalent the total outside angle limits are not less than 34 degrees. That is saying that if the angles are set in not less than #2 hole. There is nothing there that says it can't be more than #2 hole is there? If that is the case then I say that Diagram is in reference to what is commonly called 2 hole targets. My original statement is the same the passage of the rule that I post here is still not naming a Max angle to be used just naming a max for "2 hole targets"(as they are commonly referred to)it doesn't say that a club can't set the angles wider just that they can't set them narrower.

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Bob- In the diagram, the clear area is equivalent to the old 2 hole setting and the shaded area comes close to the old 3 hole setting. Three hole targets are legal and are enjoyed by a few, two hole targets are enjoyed by many.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Bob:

    Look at it this way and see if it makes more sense: The diagram describes the outside limits of the legal target area, but it can't address minimum angles since everything in the legal target area is just that, legal.

    We don't really need extra wording regarding max angles, since anything outside the diagram is illegal. But the same is not true for minimum angles, since they are always within the legal target area. Therefore, specific wording is necessary to describe the minimum acceptable angles.

    The fact that the minimum angles are specifically described in the rule text does not mean there is no maximum target area, that is what the diagram covers.
     
  19. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Bob:

    The text on page 56 of the ATA rules and Diagram II on page 57 defined the area withing points BEFGB as the “most desirable area is which to throw” (op. cit.). The diagram shows that area as 17 degrees either side of the center line.

    They further define BDEFGHB as the “area of legitimate target” which is 27 degrees either side of the center line.

    Subsection E of Section XIII on page 48 elaborates.

    “In Singles shooting the trap shall be so adjusted that within the normal
    distribution of angles as thrown by the trap, the right angle shall not be
    less than 17 degrees measured to the right of center (3BF), and not
    less than 17 degrees measured to the left of center (3BF), with a total
    angle between outside target limits of not less than 34 degrees.”

    And on page 49

    …no target is to be declared illegal unless it is significantly outside normal
    parameters (e.g., more than 10 degrees outside normal).

    Diagram II and the cited text clearly define the minimum and maximum legal angles.

    Nothing in the rules prevents a club from intentionally setting target angles greater than 17 degrees either side of the center line. However, any angle greater than 27 degrees is defined by the rules as outside the "legitimate" target area and subject to being declared illegal for ATA registered events.

    sissy
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    sissy, I'm a bit gun-shy since I messed up the height rule here so recently. But I remember why the rule

    "…no target is to be declared illegal unless it is significantly outside normal parameters (e.g., more than 10 degrees outside normal)."

    was written just that way, with the word "normal" instead of the more direct and specific "27-degrees" which would be otherwise preferable.

    It uses "normal" to accommodate clubs who want to throw wider angles. Three-hole clubs have a "normal" spread to the right of 22 degrees, so the limit-for-legal increases with that number too and becomes 32 degrees. And so on for wider settings.

    This is necessary since if the number specified had been 27, then the added-degrees-for-illegality with three-hole would have been five, not ten, and for, say, four-hole, the "normal" right would have been illegal.

    Note too that definition of what is to be declared illegal is not "normal plus 10 degrees." It is rather

    "significantly outside normal parameters"

    and 10 degrees is cited as an example of what would qualify. It is not, however, the rule; the longer text is. That's because no one can read angles from the shooting-line or scoring bench, but, using conventional standards of sportsmanship, we can usually agree on '"significantly outside normal parameters."

    Neil
     
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