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Toyota acceleration data analysis....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Jul 14, 2010.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    And as many suspected... not the electronics.


    Early Tests Pin Toyota Accidents on Drivers


    Toyota representatives examined a crashed Toyota Prius in March in Harrison, N.Y.

    The U.S. Department of Transportation has analyzed dozens of data recorders from Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration and found that the throttles were wide open and the brakes weren't engaged at the time of the crash, people familiar with the findings said.

    The U.S. Department of Transportation found that throttles were wide open and brakes not engaged on Toyotas involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration, said people familiar with the matter. Mike Ramsey discusses. Also, Joe White and Ashby Jones discuss the U.S. Court ruling striking down certain FCC rules against broadcast indecency.

    The early results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyotas and Lexuses surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes.

    But the findings—part of a broad, ongoing federal investigation into Toyota's recalls—don't exonerate the car maker from two known issues blamed for sudden acceleration in its vehicles: "sticky" accelerator pedals that don't return to idle and floor mats that can trap accelerators to the floor.

    The findings by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration involve a sample of the reports in which a driver of a Toyota vehicle said the brakes were depressed but failed to stop the car from accelerating and ultimately crashing.

    A NHTSA spokeswoman declined to comment on the findings, which haven't been released by the agency.

    The data recorders analyzed by NHTSA were selected by the agency, not Toyota, based on complaints the drivers had filed with the government. Toyota hasn't been involved in interpreting the data.

    The initial findings are consistent with a 1989 government-sponsored study that blamed similar driver mistakes for a rash of sudden-acceleration reports involving Audi 5000 sedans.

    The Toyota findings appear to support Toyota's position that sudden-acceleration reports involving its vehicles weren't caused by electronic glitches in computer-controlled throttle systems, as some safety advocates and plaintiffs' attorneys have alleged. More than 100 people have sued the car maker over crashes they claim were the result of faulty electronics.

    It is unknown how many data recorders NHTSA has read so far. The agency's investigators have been reading the data only since Toyota provided the agency with 10 reading devices in March.

    Since then, investigators have responded to accidents involving sudden acceleration when the driver claims to have been stepping on the brakes.

    Because the data recorders can lose their information if disconnected from the car's battery or if the battery dies—as could happen after a crash—the agency is focusing only on recent accidents, said a person familiar with the situation.

    NHTSA has received more than 3,000 complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyotas and Lexuses, including some dating to early last decade, according to a report the agency compiled in March. The incidents include 75 fatal crashes involving 93 deaths.

    However, NHTSA has been able to verify that only one of those fatal crashes was caused by a problem with the vehicle, according to information the agency provided to the National Academy of Sciences. That accident last Aug. 28, which killed a California highway patrolman and three passengers in a Lexus, was traced to a floor mat that trapped the gas pedal in the depressed position.

    Toyota has since recalled more than eight million cars globally to fix floor mats and sticky accelerators.

    The NHTSA spokeswoman said the agency wouldn't comment on its Toyota probe until a broader study is completed in conjunction with NASA, which is expected to take months.

    Daniel Smith, NHTSA's associate administrator for enforcement, told a panel of the National Academy of Sciences last month that the agency's sudden-acceleration probe had yet to find any car defects beyond those identified by the company: pedals entrapped by floor mats, and accelerator pedals that are slow to return to idle.

    "In spite of our investigations, we have not actually been able yet to find a defect" in electronic throttle-control systems, Mr. Smith told the scientific panel, which is looking into potential causes of sudden acceleration.

    "We're bound and determined that if it exists, we're going to find it," he added. "But as yet, we haven't found it."

    Some Toyota officials say they are informally aware of the NHTSA data-recorder results. Toyota officials haven't been briefed on the findings, but they corroborate its own tests, said Mike Michels, the chief spokesman for Toyota Motor Sales.

    Toyota says its own downloads of data recorders have found evidence of sticky pedals and pedal entrapment as well as driver error, which is characterized by no evidence of the brakes being depressed during impact.

    Still, since the start of Toyota's troubles late last summer, the Japanese company hasn't blamed drivers for any of the sudden-acceleration incidents, though in many cases the company couldn't find another cause. Toyota President Akio Toyoda has said the company won't pin the blame on customers for its problems as part of its public-relations response.

    An attorney who represents four drivers who sued Toyota in state courts over sudden acceleration said the NHTSA finding doesn't mean much for his litigation. "Toyota has always taken the position that the electronic data recorder system is not reliable," said Tab Turner, the Little Rock, Ark., lawyer.

    A Toyota spokesman said the company considers the device "a prototype tool. It wasn't designed to tell us exactly what happened in an accident. It was designed to tell us whether our systems were operating properly."

    One case studied by U.S. regulators involves Myrna Marseille of Kohler, Wis., who reported in March that her 2009 Toyota Camry accelerated out of control and crashed into a building.

    Ms. Marseille said in an interview Tuesday that she was entering a parking space near a library when she heard the engine roar. "I looked down and my foot was still on the brake, so I did not have my foot on the gas pedal," she said.

    Police in Sheboygan Falls, Wis., investigated and believe driver error was to blame, Chief Steven Riffel said Tuesday. He said surveillance video showed that the brake lights didn't illuminate until after the crash. But Mr. Riffel said that determination is preliminary and that his agency has turned over the investigation to NHTSA.

    Based on the black box data, NHTSA investigators found that the brake was not engaged and the throttle was wide open, according to a person familiar with the matter.

    Ms. Marseille sticks by her story. "It makes me very angry when someone tells me, 'She probably hit the gas pedal instead,' because I think it's a sexist comment, an ageist comment," she said.
  2. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Near but not in chicago
    Sounds like history has repeated itself, for those of us old enough to remember, the identical issue with the Audi 500, a five cyl vehicle that could never develope enough power to over ride the brake system. I know I owned one!
  3. SeldomShoots

    SeldomShoots Active Member

    Oct 25, 2006
    You know, they have made cars so quiet you can't hear them running or the engine reving. Lets go back to cars with loud exhaust and metal dashboards that vibrated. Then you'll know when your in the process of screwing up. lol

    John E.
  4. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Sounds like Toyota was blamed for bad driving. The Obama administration, the news and the UAW sure made a big deal out of it though, didn't they?
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    "I looked down and my foot was on the brake?"

    Holy jumpin Jehosaphat! (and a number of other expletives).

    I can only conclude that there are way too many unqualified people opreating motor vehicles.

  6. chipking

    chipking TS Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Just a question. Where do these data recorders get their data from? Is it a totaly seperate electronics system or feed back from the cars electronic system?

    --- Chip King ---
  7. BigDave1200

    BigDave1200 Member

    Nov 22, 2009
    I used to drive a Dodge Dakota which was the company truck and I found with my work boots on when I went to brake, if my foot was not square on the brake peddle it would roll slightly over onto the accelerator pedal causing the engine to idle higher making it difficult to brake.That was the only vehicle that I have ever experienced that. It must have been the pedal position of that make of vehicle.Have you ever noticed what people wear on their feet while driving? I could believe that it was operator error when it came to Toyota alleged accelerator problem and also some scammers trying to jump on the band wagon looking for easy money.
  8. Claydotter

    Claydotter Active Member

    Jan 4, 2010
    Rainier , Wa.
    Big Dave nailed it.

    The words "Scammers" and "Band Wagon" say it all.

    This whole thing was suspect to me all along.

    Why take responsibility for your own actions when you and your scum-bag / ambulance chasing lawyer can get a big payday?

    Unfortunately that`s the way it is today. If all else fails, SUE!

    Regards, Pete
  9. mx2k33

    mx2k33 Well-Known Member

    Nov 21, 2007
    It wasn't my perfect reloads, it was a gun defect!!
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