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Total revenue keeping Trap alive ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Hammer1, Nov 27, 2010.

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  1. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    Of the total revenue which keeps the sport of Trap shooting alive and well...

    That is, keeps local trap ranges operating, keeps clay target manufacturers in business, keeps shotgun and shotshell companies producing, keeps the accessory businesses in the black, etc...

    What percentage of that total pie is the serious trap shooter who travels to competitions, knows his handicap, and takes trap shooting seriously ?

    And what percentage is the occasional shooter who goes to the range with his family or friends to shoot a few rounds for fun and practice towards hunting ?

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  2. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Maybe 10% and that might be a very generous number.

    Eric
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hammer1- I can partially give you some qualitative, not quantitative, answers. According to Ray (retired) from White Flyer, the total number of registered targets shot was about 15% of their total production. Many more registered birds are shot at small shoots than at the larger shoots. The backbone of the ATA is the smaller shoots (2-75 shooters). The total targets shot by all shooters who shoot over 10,000 registered birds each year is a small percentage of the total ATA targets shot. Also, there are many very serious money shooters who only shoot games.

    I do shoot well over 10,000 registered birds each year and I am in the minority.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. Ljutic111

    Ljutic111 TS Member

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    I agree with the 10% . Most shooters just want a place to go to when he wants to shoot , at their preferred times and doesn`t matter to them of what the club has to do to be open , work , rent , expenses , just as long as we are there for them . Sure there are dedicated shooters that support their favorite clubs but no thought of anything further than that . Always from some people are remarks of what to do to make it better for them . Of course it is with no help from them . Some guys come to our club and help more than some members which is great and we really appreciate that . Others complain when we had our first Pie Shoot , why didn`t we give away Turkeys ??? By the way , the Pie Shoot was one of the best shoot we had . WE gave 30 pies @ $15 each for free . Still some aren`t satisfied and they didn`t even need the Turkey ??
     
  5. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Longer ago than I care to remember, when I was getting serious about shooting Trap competition we had an Alliant Powder shortage. I scrounged up all the American Select I could find in 5 states, just to shoot 12,000 registered birds.

    I called Alliant and asked what was up, and why was it so hard to get target powders? I was told, very politely, that target shooting was less that 8% of their market. That Shotshell manufacturers sold more shells in August and September to hunters than they did all year to the target sports. I've never forgotten that point.

    The other thing that sticks in my mind is that I belong to several shotgun clubs, and we have a very strong informal shooting schedule with 10 to 15 guys and gals that show up, even in the snow and cold. There are only 3 of us that register birds - in any fashion. This year it will be just two - maybe. We shot the ashes of our middleman over the range this month.

    IME,
    Kip
     
  6. Grayson Mayne

    Grayson Mayne Member

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    R.Kipling a Remington rep told me back in the late 70's that more shell were fired on opening day of dove season than were shot at clay target all year. Like you, I have never forgotten that statement. This was at a registered skeet shoot in Salisbury, Md. Back then they sent a tractor trailer with a built in shop and a smith to shoots like that. I am not a skeeter, my brother was, and a pretty good one.
     
  7. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I would bet non-registered shooters are more economically significant, hands-down. ATA registered is for the "obsessed," and those people shoot a LOT. But they're a drop in the bucket I suspect.
     
  8. MR HARDWARE

    MR HARDWARE TS Member

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    Our club in Central Wa. has 60 members 40 trap 20 skeet. 15 of the trap shooters shoot registered ATA and PITA. 12 of these shoot all are league shoots, these 12 shoot at least once a week. 7 shoot 3 game nights a month.
    I have a motorhome and normally have 4 go with me on multi-day registered shoots, 3 others have their own rv's. When we go for a day shoot normally bring 8 or 9. My point is 13 of the 15 are 55 or older we have tried hard to get new younger shooters, our young shooters shoot very well just to busy to join us. I love this sport but I'm worried about its future!
     
  9. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    When White Flyer was owned by Olin, Ken Sedlecky told me Wal Mart sold more targets over-the-counter than were used by all of registered shooting.
     
  10. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    I cannot believe that more shells are shot opening day of dove season than all those shot at targets combined. Maybe they sell more shells but how many of those shells are shot warming up at the trap, skeet, sc ranges before opening day even arrives. I used to be very active at a small club in MA. Every year we would get a gang of hunters at the club for a couple of weeks prior to opening day of bird season. Then we would get them back a couple of times during the season. I'll bet the farm they all shot more of their dove and Quail loads at the range than they did all season at game. If you look at just the Grand there are millions of shells shot each year. I know the Silver Dollar alone threw more than 4 milllion targets last year and that's at least 1 shell per target. Do the manufacfturer's count just the target loads when they make their asumptions? When I was a hunter in New England I would shoot more shells at targets in one month than I did all season at ducks, geese, pheasants, grouse, quail and woodcock for the whole season. Of course I was working then and only had about 30 days of hunting per year. JRM
     
  11. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    League shooting be it trapshooting, skeet or sporting clays throw the most targets, by far.

    I've heard that old chesnut about "the first day of dove shooting" since I began shooting. It seems wrong but every shell rep. I've ever known says the same thing. They say it's not even a contest. I didn't know there were that many dove shooters any more.
     
  12. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    FWIW, in 2009 its estimated 45,000,000 doves were harvested in the US. And thats just doves. Millions and millions of other migratory and game birds were taken too. Just do a search. Hunting is alive and well for shell manufacturers.

    Wayne
     
  13. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Fact - Over 57 million registered targets thrown in 2009.

    BS - Walmarts sells more targets. Prove it.

    BS - More league targets are shot then registered. Prove it.

    BS - More doves are shot on opening day. Prove it.

    The original question falls in the unanswerable and kind of dumb to begin with and leads to nothing but speculation. Name on person qualified to give a close to correct answer.

    Don
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    A shell manufacturer representative would know when and how many shells are ordered by distributors and larger stores, but they would have no idea when the shells are sold. Nobody except the individual purchaser would know when the shells are shot and what they are shooting at with the shells. A good trap load is also a good Dove load.

    Shell manufacturers have frequently been quoted as saying that trap shooting is around 8% of their total market. That estimate is reasonable.

    It is possible to get the number of targets made by White Flyer in one year. It is also possible to find the total number of ATA targets thrown in one year. From these numbers it become clear that many more targets are thrown for non registered activities than are thrown as ATA registered birds. One can only guess what constitutes the the non registered target use.

    There is also a difference between total registered birds shot and the total targets used for registered events (breakage, practice for registered events, shoot offs).

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Hammer1, You ask for an answer that is unattainable Iam afraid due to the fact there are no recording keeping files available to trace where items go once purchased. My uneducated guess would be that the informal shooter (ie practice, league, out behind the barn) people would be the stronghold.
     
  16. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Probably the old 80/20 rule applies. 80% goes to having fun, and 20% goes to competition.
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I agree the Walmart staement is BS. We throw more than a million targets a year. Walmart does not sell 2 percent of that, and we have 3 stores in our area.

    We do have a lot of serious shooters shooting leagues and non registered competition all year round.

    We do have a ton of social skeet shot, and the registered is only 1 per cent of the total birds if that.

    HM
     
  18. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    One comment related to whether manufacturers know when items are sold at retail.

    In today's supply chain environment, many manufacturers do know the day their products are sold and at what specific retail location. Not all, but many.

    This is actually very common today.

    As to knowing when the shell is shot and at what target... Don't know that one yet. Except by manufacturers, retailers, and industry surveys. Yes, people can and do lie when surveyed. But surveys must have some resemblance to reality or else capitalist business folks would quit doing them or basing business decisions on them. And some of y'all are reporting consistent answers from various industry representatives so the survey liars would need to have a pretty good conspiracy going.

    I have no idea as to the answer to my question except y'all's responses.

    For which I am appreciative and grateful.


    Hammer

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  19. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    As to my original question being dumb, it might very well fall into that category. Won't be the first time.

    However, knowing the sources of revenue that keeps an activity alive might be considered important if you have an interest in keeping it alive.

    Most business folks like to know that sort of thing.

    But given the fast growing pace of trap shooting, this sort of thing is probably not of much interest.

    I really enjoy my weekly opportunity to shoot trap and enjoy the friendliness and conversation of all the participants I have met.


    Hammer

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