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Too light loads???

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Frank C, Jul 6, 2009.

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  1. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    Loaded up some of this recipe below and shot them yesterday, had about 10 light loads, none that failed to break the birds, but light enough that the recoil was so slight that the gun moved "forward" after the shot....as did my body.

    Reload data is
    STS hull
    18 gr Red Dot
    Win 209
    Fig 8 Wad

    this should yield 1145 fps, I measured some after the fact last night and see that I am now dropping 17.5 Grains not 18, is that .5 grains enough to cause these "poofers"? Is the gas slipping by the wad?? by the way for all that will jump all over for one reason or another, yes I WAS using a beam scale, (zeroed too) but somehow the 10 or so test measures were closer to 18 than 17.5??? powder density? (I only have one keg...)
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The load is not too light. You have another problem.

    Just curious - lengthened forcing cone? Big Bore of some kind? I was using a Perazzi barrel with some mega-long forcing cone and had occasional odd sounds with just the load you describe and switched to an unmodified one and they sound fine now.

    Neil
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    It is quite possible that something is causing an irregular powder drop or possibly worn wad guide fingers are allowing a small cut in the over powder area of your wads.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Make sure your powder drop tube is clear and that the powder shut off is not partially closed. (if you have one).

    The load you mentioned is not that lite, even at 17.5 g. If you have some loaded shells remaining from the blooper batch, cut them open, weigh the charges and look for abnormalities.

    Another remote possibility is damaged or cocked wads caused by broken wad guide fingers. Seated normally the F8 wad you are using is great but if you mangle the base, powder can migrate out of the combustion zone resulting in bloopers.
     
  5. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    So your gun and body moved "forward" after the shot instead of backward?

    WOW, I'm going to have to load me some of those negative recoil loads. I might have to put a strap around the gun butt and loop the strap around my shoulder to keep the gun from jumping forward out of my hands.

    Easystreet
     
  6. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    I have loaded down to 16.5 gr and no problems - unmodified K-80.

    What kind of reloader? If a MEC, is the charge bar moving all the way every time?

    Don Verna
     
  7. knutershooter

    knutershooter Member

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    We had some poofers also and it was the charge bar not going all the way over every once in a while, not all the time though so it was hard to figure out a first. Watch your charge bar and make sure it is traveling the full distance to pick up all of the powder.
     
  8. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    MEC 9000, no broken fingers, loaded thousands per year but am just finishing up my first keg of Red Dot in years, been using 700 X, Green Dot, Clays for the last...??? years, I NEVER had one of these loads before! I always load on the light side but within specs of data, the gun is an unmodified Beretta 687....I will look at the charge bar travel issue, but I don't think that is it.

    One shell was so weak that when I looked down the barrel.....when the smoke cleared, I saw a lot of unburned powder residue (flakes). I cannot believe that there is a primer issue cause I loaded up 100 Handi Cap loads after loading these light loads and I shot them right after the singles event, they were ALL fine, 18.8 grains,
    If I ever get a wad that gets jammed or caught on the hull mouth, I pull it out, if the bottom is damaged, bent, or dented etc, I toss it! btw, it doesn't happen often.....so I am stumped??? I am going to try loading with the next bushing up (33), I think around 18.2gr and see what happens and advise tomorrow. Thanks for the help!
     
  9. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    Frank,

    It sounds like a (lack of) powder issue to me. Somehow, some of those shells aren't getting the full 17.5 grains, IMO.

    Another possibility is weak crimps from cases that have been reloaded too many times.

    And finally, you never did say how much shot you were using in the load. With one ounce or more, the load should be good.

    Easystreet
     
  10. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    hulls are OK not worn out, 1.125 oz loads......will have a look at the charge bar travel...but again, the next 100 rounds I loaded were H Caps and they were all fine??
     
  11. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    I know what this is, I have had it happen.

    I had 18 gr of Red dot go off with very low velocity and a lot of smoke.

    It did it on every shell. I cut a few open to verify the powder was there.

    It was. The problem was bad primers. I changed to newer ones that had been stored better and had good results every time. I went back to the old ones just to be 100% sure and yes poofers again.

    It is amazing how double base powder can burn like a match without a good spanking from a primer and how important primer strength (manufacturer) REALLY is.

    Did your primers get spoiled with moisture or oil?


    regards
     
  12. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    primers were new in March....
     
  13. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    Win 209, new sleeve in MArch, stored on the loading bench, same place primers have been stored for 15 yrs.
     
  14. shamlin

    shamlin Member

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    I had the same thing happen this weekend, with almost the exact same load. I shoot that load for 16's only and out of 300 targets, had 4 poofers. I think it is due to bad primers. I just bought the Win209's at the Ohio State Shoot.
     
  15. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I've had that happen twice. The first time was in very cold weather and changing from Remington primers to Federals solved the problem. The second time was more interesting.

    After loading the same recipe for years, I suddenly was having some serious bloopers. I stopped shooting and went home, where I weighed all the remaining shells in that flat and found many very light ones. Cutting them open revealed anywhere from a few flakes of powder to three grains under the desired charge weight. The charge bar seemed to cycle fully, so I removed the powder bottle and peered down into the red plastic baffle. It appeared to be black instead of red and when I touched it with my finger, powder dropped from it into the bushing and it became red once again.

    Even though my loader is grounded by being attached to a grounded applicance (an AutoMate), that damned plastic baffle was not a conductor. Static had built up in it and it was clogged with powder. Even though MEC advises against using a baffle, I had caved in to temptation and installed the baffle before I loaded the last two flats of shells. I spent the rest of that afternoon cutting open light shells and the baffle went into the round file. Haven't had a problem since then!

    Ed
     
  16. Cyenergy

    Cyenergy TS Member

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    Light loads. Had that happen to me. I use a grabber, so it would be the same set up. Id have some good ones an then a poofer. As it turned out the brass washer under the powder drop had moved and was moving back and forth, sometimes Id get powder then just a little. No longer use the brass washer, an the leakage is slight. Check it, it cannt hurt.

    Dave
     
  17. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    going down stairs to check on the brass washer.....by the way, I loaded up a box using the 33 bushing, dropping 18.2 gr and shot them tonight! they shot fine!
     
  18. Cyenergy

    Cyenergy TS Member

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    Thats when my problems started. When I changed bushings. Stupid washer came out of its slot. Only way I spotted it was I took the powder bottle off. Then looked. There it was half way over the hole.
     
  19. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    I had a look last night.....brass washer OK, while looking with both bottles off I noticed that the bushing should fill with powder even if the charge bar does not go all the way over to the "stop" slot...in other words it is a bit forgiving....
     
  20. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

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    FrankC: Your load is not too light. I load Promo and Red Dot with 17.5 grains of powder using Fiocchi primers, DownRange XL-1 wads, 1 1/16 oz shot and Remington hulls. They shoot fine. I have also experimented with 16.5 and 17 grains of powder, using the above recipe. They shot very well. I hope you find your problem. My son had this problem due to having cocked wads. He had the reloader refurbished by Hornady and the problem ended. Hope you can find the problem; but it's definitely not because of loading 17.5 grains. Good luck. Ed
     
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