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To Release or Not to Release that is the question?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by vpr80, Sep 21, 2009.

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  1. vpr80

    vpr80 Active Member

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    Having never shot a Release trigger (not the opportunity to do so at this time), I am wondering if it's worth buying a release trigger to try it out? Not that I have any problems with my Pull trigger, but seems that Release is the way to go. However, the trigger is pretty pricey so it's not a cheap option and so:
    (1) Is it worth trying?
    (2) And how much would you pay for the second trigger?

    Thanks

    PS - It's for a BT-100.
     
  2. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    vpr80........Buying a release just to try out isn't really a very good idea.

    The reason being, you really don't know if you'll like it or not.

    The best thing to do is to ask one of your friends who has one whether he would let you try it out sometime. If he is any kind of a friend, and most are, he'd be more than happy to let you try it out to see if this might be something you'd like pursue farther.

    Having borrowed one, so to speak, if you don't like it, you can just walk away. If you do really really like it, then is the time to put your money on the line and purchase a release trigger for your gun.

    Good luck and I hope I've helped in some small way.

    Hauxfan!
     
  3. vpr80

    vpr80 Active Member

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    Ehhhhh I just joined the new club so I am not really that friendly with people yet to ask to use their guns and I found the trigger already. I think I might pass because it's pretty pricey and I don't know if it's worth the investment in the BT or just save up for a higher-end gun down the line.
     
  4. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    If you aren't flinching, I would pass on it. If you are, then someday you will go to a release.

    Your shooting will let you know.

    Hauxfan!
     
  5. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    My opinion:

    There is no question involved. Either you NEED the release or stay away. I shoot release and it was not much of an adjustment, but I'd go back to pull if I could.

    If you don't need it, it's just an unnecessary complication and expense.
     
  6. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    It's like sex. Most people - but not everyone - that try it like it, and, yes, it is more complicated and expensive, but it's worth it.

    And the people that aren't using it are what we call, you know..
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I bought a KS-5 in 1991 that had a release hook in the action but not adjusted to engage the sear. One night at a practice shoot, I turned the screws so it did work and tried it. Five targets later, I was swearing that only fools would use such a device.

    Three years later, I suddenly started flinching. When the condition remained after several days, I tried the release again. My first trap was a 14 but the second was a 24 and I wouldn't go back to a pull trigger if I could. Amazing what the brain can adapt to when it knows it has to.

    If you have a Remington 870 or 1100, you can buy a release for $150, install it yourself and try it. If you don't like or need it and don't want to keep it for when you will, it can easily be resold. Break-open guns are another story - releases are $300 to $500 per barrel and often cannot be removed without leaving the gun with a horrible pull trigger.

    Ed
     
  8. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    A release trigger is a tool..If your a carpenter, you look for a hammer that fits your need and feels comfortable in your hand. Same is true of all tools..BUT, if you don't need one, why would you change to one, consider the, expense, learning curve,or just another excuse for your misses. Ed's advice above is about as good as you'll get.

    Big Jack
     
  9. Francis Marion

    Francis Marion Well-Known Member

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    Save your money, do some ball and dummy practice, get rid of the flinch and live happily ever after. Release triggers are like majic dots. If you do it properly, you don't need them.
     
  10. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    a release is actually a better way to shoot, someone on here awhile back gave the analogy of comparing it to throwing a ball, when you throw a ball at something you automatically let go...that is also the way a release works.....get one and don't look back.


    tony
     
  11. Francis Marion

    Francis Marion Well-Known Member

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    DT10, yes I do understand. KENENT1, hard to convince me it's a better way to shoot. I beleive people like Jeff Cooper, Bill Wilson, Bill Jordan and others would disagree. It goes aginst everything you learn in shooting fundamentals. I understand why guys use them, I just don't agree with it. What happens when you want to go hunting with a handgun or a rifle? OOPS, accidental discharge. Hope the muzzle was pointed in a safe direction. Happy shooting.
     
  12. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    <em>"Amazing what the brain can adapt to when it knows it has to."</em> Release triggers are just a bandaid looking for a reason to fix a problem.


    Release triggers are a gadget developed for trapshooters, it's used to cover up a defect in your shooting.Even though your gun goes bang....your defect is still there.....it doesn't fix anything. Shooters in other disciplines PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.......That's how you deal with a flinch.


    But then, it may help you "GET" a couple more, if that is all that really matters to you.
     
  13. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    221, let me know how that works for you when YOUR flinch sets in. I spent two months amusing my squadmates when I got a new gun a little over a year ago before I caved in and had releases installed in it.

    Steve, as hard as it may be to believe, in 15 years of shooting trap with release triggers and hunting and target shooting with handguns, rifles and muzzleloaders with pull triggers, I have NEVER even THOUGHT about setting those triggers. And I don't know any other release trigger users who have, either. I can't tell you why that is - it makes sense that we would do that, but I guess trapshooters are smarter than most people give them credit for being. ;)

    Ed
     
  14. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    averaged.....I should have said, "what if there were no release triggers" ....Then maybe shooters would learn how to deal with it, as all the other shooting sports have done. The reason you cannot pull the trigger is your brain is telling you your shooting is sloppy, and your trying to tell your brain you are smarter than it is......Good luck.
     
  15. JOND

    JOND TS Member

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    If it ain't broke,don't fix it ! JOND
     
  16. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    221, I was going to suggest you contact the many All-Americans who use release triggers and tell them they shoot sloppy, but you probably wouldn't believe them, either.

    By the way, how long have you been a AA/27 shooter? It's been nine sloppy years for me.

    Ed
     
  17. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    Steve Mainus..........These guys you mention.........Jeff Cooper, Bill Wilson, Bill Jordan.

    How much trap did the above shooters shoot, and what were the guns they used?

    Just curious.

    Thanks for your answer in advance.

    Hauxfan!
     
  18. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Shoot a release, don't need it. Love it.. best way to shoot...
     
  19. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I could care less how many big dog's use them.......They are using them for a perceived advantage not sloppy shooting. The majority of those in favor of their use on this forum are for that reason.......The fact remains that if you think you need one you probably will not be as good as the person who does not.
    Simple fact is if you cannot shoot with out it, It's a crutch...... albeit a legal one....only found in some forms of clay target shooting.
     
  20. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    It just so happens that I got the following note late last week from a friend that he received from one of his friends. I did a couple of minor edits to protect their identities but the rest is presented as written. It's got nothing to do with flinching but it sure makes a strong case about release triggers.

    "Hey XXXXXXX,

    As you know, I took up Trapshooting a little more than 4 years ago using an old model 12 trap gun that was loaned to me by a friend. However, after I had demonstrated a commitment to the game, my father in law sent me an over/under. By chance, it had both release and pull dropout triggers. While I knew nothing about release triggers and had never flinched, I thought why not give it a try. One of the guys at the club where I shoot showed me how to use it. Bingo. Within a couple of rounds I was shooting better than I had ever shot before. I soon gave ATA a try. I liked it and within XX months I was shooting AA/27.

    I have watched the arguments about release triggers on TS.com for quite a while. I never felt qualified to jump in and participate because most of these arguments referred to flinching rather than just whether a release trigger is a better method of firing a trap gun. Because I had never had a problem with flinching, I do not understand anything about that problem. However, here is where it gets interesting. I have a very unique job. I am a team coordinator/referee/slave driver/mother hen for a team of exceptionally educated, experienced professionals representing a variety of engineering, medical, psychological and research disciplines. Our business is rocket science and brain surgery so to speak.

    We are all employed by a major aerospace firm and while some of what we do is highly classified, most of it is of a standard commercial nature. What we do is provide independent testing for human interface control systems to determine if those controls are designed in such a manner as to eliminate as much probability of human error as possible. Simply put, this might just be whether it is better for a two way toggle switch to have up as off and down as on or vice versa. However, think of the control array in a 737 cockpit, the space shuttle or a nuclear power plant and that is what people pay us a lot of money to test. We usually have about 10 people on a team and we bill at $8000-$10,000 per hour.

    About once a quarter we try to get the team out of the labs and into a more natural setting. I decided that a day at my trap club might be a lot of fun. I recruited a friend to help me with getting the guys to the line and shooting, and hopefully, hitting some targets. We had four trap guns, three with pull triggers and mine with the release. I was surprised at how easily some of the guys took to shooting the release. Afterwards, as we were sitting around enjoying chili dogs, the guys who used the release trigger started asking questions as to why my gun had a release and the other guns had pulled triggers. I gave the standard overview concerning flinching. However, these guys immediately were interested in whether a release trigger is a better human control interface for firing a trap gun. Much discussion ensued and everyone had a great time bringing their particular discipline to bear, but being research scientists no one would accept a resolution without specific testing.

    A couple of weeks later, we had cleared the decks for a large contract concerning a fire control system for a shipboard missile defense system. The package was to arrive on the appointed morning and we had completed constructing our testing protocols. However, as I was conducting what I thought was the final check list meeting, we were notified that their might be a delay in delivery. Somehow the conversation flowed back to the outing at the trap club and then the discussion about release triggers. About that time, we were notified that delivery would be delayed at least 24 hours. So here is all this high-priced talent with nothing to do so someone suggested why not apply our talents to a release trigger review. Needless to say, numerous bets were quickly made. Having previously received security clearance to bring my trap gun into the employee parking lot, I happened to have my gun in my trunk. A quick call to security and I and my trap gun were being escorted into the lab.

    Soon, we had several volunteers with wires attached from their trigger fingers, up their arms, on their spinal column and all over their heads. Others were studying the mechanical forces required and exerted by the two different triggers. Data was collected in the number crunching began. After a bit over five hours of research we had our answer.

    Our typical project results in a document that runs from 20 pages for something very simple to several hundred pages for multiple function control arrays. However, while these reports are very helpful for the design and manufacturing teams, we have devised a simple ratio to present so that non-technical management people can quickly appreciate the value propositions of one system versus another. To do this we assign the least desirable functionality a value of one. We then assign the better functionality a value of plus one. By example, if we have found that the up is the worst position for "on" for the toggle switch then we might say that having "off" is a 1.14 better choice. We call this the better alternative ratio.

    Because most of the products/systems that we test our very well designed with a lot of previous knowledge applied, our alternative ratio is usually fairly low. In fact, previously the highest alternative ratio that we have estimated for a manual control was a 2.67. Now, drumroll, the release trigger came back with a better alternative ratio compared to the pull trigger of 3.27 based upon a projected 100 repetitions in a 45 minute time frame.
    Quite frankly I was shocked at how big the difference was. Even though I had seen my shooting improve after getting the gun with the release trigger, there were lots of other variables that I am sure contributed to that progress

    In summary, we produced a result that someone would have had to pay us about $45,000 to achieve. While I can't add anything to the discussion about flinching, I think I can categorically state that a release trigger provides a substantial biomechanical superiority to a pull trigger for shooting a trap gun.

    Of course, we all know that many of the best trapshooters successfully use pull triggers and achieve 99% plus results. We also know that the majority of release trigger users will never achieve 99% plus results. However, if I were going to train 100 qualified candidates that can fly fighter jets to shoot trap, every one of them would have a gun with a release trigger."
     
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