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To Declare or not to Declare; That is the Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by gdbabin, Jun 27, 2012.

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  1. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    I find myself caught in a conundrum created by the newly created opportunity to become a declared Category shooter.


    To be honest some close to me know I harbor a bit of good-natured contempt for the infirmed, female, and snot-nosed among us who are treated as special by our governing body. It's not that I don't empathize with their plight. It is because they are sneaky devious individuals who must be "more smarter" than me (if not more articulate) as they seem to be able to cipher out all this category stuff.


    Being open minded and with the innocence of a crippled female child with Alzheimer's, I've asked several knowledgeable category shooters on how I should, or should not exploit the brand new category created for the not crippled, not female, not a snot nose, not in college, and not quite an old timer.


    As usual I'm tempted to take the path of least resistance and ignore the category as I've always had denial issues; however, I hate being left out!


    Question:


    At the Grand, is there an advantage or disadvantage to declaring SubVet for someone who has no likelihood of making an All American team?



    Guy Babin
     
  2. rennerize

    rennerize Active Member

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    I am not sure but I will declare it.
    Don
     
  3. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I'm scratchin myself over it too!

    Time is running short...



    [​IMG]
     
  4. zinger

    zinger Member

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    Declaring is the easy part...try figuring out if you won anything with all the "rules" is another!
     
  5. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    At the Grand, I'd say yes, there is certainly an issue. If you are in AAA or AA it probably isn't much of a case, but if you are in the lower classes you are better off not declaring. I say this becasue the categories at the grand will all be populated with AAA shooters, every one of them. If you are in say C Class, shoot your first 100 straight, (let's just ignore your chances at event champ) and you will likely find yourself out of luck for any Class C trophies and facing a bunch of AAA All Americans in the shoot-off for Sub-Vet.
     
  6. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    The rules are simple. As a matter of fact, it's simpler now than it was in "the good old days" of multiple categories and fall back options.

    Declaring for a category just gives you another opportunity to win a trophy.

    Yes, I know that there are people who have concocted scenarios that show that you are going to get screwed over, but the reality is far from that.

    In Sub Vet you are still going to have to shoot a top score.

    It just depends on what you consider to be more prestigious. Do you care more about being the B Class Singles Champ, or being the Sub Veteran Singles Champ? That's what it comes down to, ultimately.
     
  7. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    V10:

    We disagree on this rule, but that's ok. But you are going too far to say that it takes a concocted scenario to make it look like you are getting screwed over. Take my post above, I believe it is a very likely scenario, not concocted at all. If I was a sub-vet in C and shot 100, I'd rather face other C Class shooters than AAA All-Americans for a chance to take a trophy home. Fact is, I think most shooters would agree with me. Poor choice to declare in that scenario. There are a lot more problems with the rule, but this addresses the OP's issue.
     
  8. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    No, you're right, there will be just as many good shooters in Sub Vet.

    I was speaking of the previous discussions where people go around and around trying to come up with reasons why they "new" category rules are bad.

    There will always be good shooters in all the categories. I remember when people bemoaned the fact that Kay was now a Vet, then a Senior Vet.

    And you're right, an A, B, C, or D Class shooter has only a slim chance of winning Sub Vet. But on the other hand, declaring Sub Vet doesn't really hurt either. In most cases they won't be in contention for the Sub Vet trophy, and if they are, you never know, it just might be their day.

    It all depends on what is more important to that shooter: Class, Yardage Group, Place, or Category.
     
  9. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I didn't mean to pick on Sub-Vet, that's just what was in play in this thread. That's probably the toughest category of all, but my point would apply to any category, not just the new ones.
     
  10. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    True.

    Should a D class sub junior go to the Grand and declare Sub Junior? Probably not. But I bet most do.
     
  11. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, under the current rule. Most shooters do not understand this. Anecdotally, I understand that some classifiers at large shoots don't either.
     
  12. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    And if you declare category and are event runner-up, you lose out on the added $ for the event, correct?
     
  13. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    BM-P,

    We've been through that before.

    Added money distribution is controlled by shoot management.

    Shoot management should have added money distributed based on scores, not on "winning."
     
  14. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    I got a dumb question?

    I'm 64 y/o, if I declare "SubVet" at the state shoot am I still also eligible for the Class trophy? With a B class average I suspect it'd be more likely to win class than subvet........

    John C. Saubak
     
  15. Don S

    Don S Member

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    Added money plays a role in this discussiom. If there is no money in categories and substantial money in class or yardage group, do not declare category. The Grand usually tries to make some money winnable in category. Category money is seldom available at Club and State shoots.
     
  16. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Cowboy, yes you are still eligible for your class, with one exception. If you shoot a score that wins or ties for ANY of your categories trophies, you cannot win any Class trophies. Even if you have high score all alone in Class, and end up losing the category shootoff, you go home empty handed.
     
  17. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    The first consideration is the AA Team. If you are trying to be on an AA Category Team you must declare the Category. The second consideration is Trophies. Where do you have the best chance of winning a trophy?
    In a category you will be competing against AAA 27 AAA shooters. If you are not AAA 27 AAA and want to win a trophy you might have a better chance by not declaring a category. Same for added money.
     
  18. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    ebsurveyor,


    Your response comes closest to what I'm considering. All American is not a consideration in my case. I am a borderline B/A singles, 23.5 hcp (with a 88. something), and C dubs shooter.


    My tendency is to do just as you state--I'm just looking for validation. All the rest of the above responses make me crazy…. unless I’m missing something that is.




    Guy B.
     
  19. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Guy, I don't know either.

    I'll be AA, but, I can shoot AAA scores this time of year.

    I'd prefer to drag them to my level where I can beat them with experience lol..

    The Category thing, especially sub-vet,is a head scratcher for me...

    I guess I could ask.. "what's Leo, Ray, and Phil taking?" and head the other way...
     
  20. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    So I'm not the only one confused and unsure of what to do--I feel better now... I think.


    Section X.D. rules 4, & 5 still give my pea-brain fits at shoots when I see my name up on the score board surrounded by a plethora of Category shooters.



    After all late afternoon at a shoot is a critical time of day for me. Typically I'm tired, hot and very thirsty jonesing for a JD on the rocks, but can't figure out if I'll need to shoot off and therefore have to wait (or not).



    It's not about the whiskey, but it is about the uncertainty of it all, and feeling of inadequateness to figure it out all by meself like a big boy.


    It reminds me of trying to get my head around imaginary numbers in algebra--it took a while!



    Guy B.
     
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