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To ALL bunker trap shooters of Arizona!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by OlympicTrapShooter, Oct 26, 2008.

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  1. OlympicTrapShooter

    OlympicTrapShooter TS Member

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    We all know we need a Bunker Trap here in Arizona right?
    Well i have good news!

    Ben Avery knows where they are going to put it and they said they need 100,000 dollars in donations. Most likely less. Any left over donated money you will get back. ALL donations will be tax deductable.

    If you are willing to help fund this project please email me at ckarvanek@cox.net
    Please leave your name, number, and how much you are willing to donate. (just to get a general idea of how much money we can get to the funding account)
    And please make sure you tell your shooting friends!

    One more thing if you have questions feel free to post them here or email me.

    OTS

    Chase Karvanek
     
  2. OlympicTrapShooter

    OlympicTrapShooter TS Member

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    Well at the time.
    We are just looking for people that would are willing. Of course this would be for our own benefit. But also Ben Avery wants the assurance of making money out of this. If we can show Ben Avery how many people are willing to contribute they will open a donation account specifically for the bunker trap field. Once we get the first field built it will open doors for many new things (because the electrical, water, etc. will already be leading out that way) Which means the more fields we want over there the cheaper they will be to add. When i speak to Bill again i will be able to answer some more of your questions. Thanks for taking a look!
    And i will get back to you as soon as i talk to him.
     
  3. OlympicTrapShooter

    OlympicTrapShooter TS Member

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    Just wanted to let everyone know.
    I am open to all questions and comments. This is not an easy thing so all tips or concerns are appreciated. Thanks again for looking.
     
  4. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I get the feeling that you will probably not find enough bunker shooters, especially bunker shooters who want to donate to build a Bunker on a State facility to make it happen ... Something don't sound right because if they wanted a Bunker at Ben Avery they would budget it in and the State would pay for it ... There has to be more to this story ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  5. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE: the more fields we want over there the cheaper they will be to add

    Are you talking 15 machine bunker, doubles bunker, or Internationl Trap shot off a wobble trap?
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Chase, You need to find out what kind of funds they are looking for. I would assume there are some winter visitors who would be willing to make a nominal donation.

    Not to muddy the water, but as an answer to Joe P, when Seth Politi wanted some training with no bunkers locally, we built 4' square shooting platforms 30" high to match the traphouse height with stairs for access, and then added spring to our GMV Superstar Wobble and were able to through some real good targets. That's a real advantage of the GMV, singles,doubles,and great wobble with windage holes 1 thru 6, and back to whatever you want in just a few minutes. I wish we had two of them. Shoot well and often, Bob
     
  7. bas

    bas Member

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    If you go to the Arizona Game & Fish website - you can find a copy of the "master plan"....it is quite comprehensive, but they do have a bunker in the plan. See Page 51.

    An excerpt from that Master Plan which explains the "funding" issue.

    The BASF Master Plan does not identify a timeline or dedicated budget for completing range developments and improvements. Prioritization of the recommended range developments and improvements will be based on the criteria of safety, demand, opportunities, and available budget. Opportunities include partnerships with outside entities or user groups that wish to provide funds or other resources for the development of specific components of the master plan.
     
  8. MX/MT

    MX/MT TS Member

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    I would certainly support and patronize a bunker at Ben Avery.

    To make it profitable and create the demand for bunker shooting, I think it would have to be of sufficient size to hold 'registered' or 'sanctioned' matches. Bunker shooters have proven that they are willing to travel to tournaments (mostly out of necessity), but I doubt that they would travel to shoot some practice.

    As much as I would like to have a bunker here for my own use, I seriously doubt that there enough local shooters to generate enough revenue to justify a 'practice field'.
     
  9. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    With Miramar closed there should be some demand for another bunker in the area. The real problem is getting someone to donate for something on State land. Suggest you get the state to build the bunker then a number of shooters will step forward with the machines. Let the ownership of the machines reset with a 501 C3 corporation and not the state. If you do something like that I will donate one bunker machine.

    Tom
     
  10. OlympicTrapShooter

    OlympicTrapShooter TS Member

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    Thanks all for looking. I understand your concern but i must inform you this isnt for sure. There is only a chance it will happen. And it will most likely not only be one field. Three bunkers is enough to hold international events which will be bringing in a good amount of money and will also get Ben Avery a worldwide known shooting range just like they are saying they want to be. I will be talking to the state again tomorrow to get some of the questions i cannot answer, answered. Please be looking back often for more information.
     
  11. OlympicTrapShooter

    OlympicTrapShooter TS Member

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    To answer your question, Joe Potosky, it will start as a regular 15 machine bunker. Then im sure (if things go as planned) they will build a doubles. I am not 100% sure because i am only trying to see how many people are interested. And if there are enough, the state will open the account taking donations.

    TBaber,
    We have someone that does have machines that is also trying to get one built here.

    WPT,
    AZGF got a big chunk of their budget removed from their existing budget. Some number around 12 million dollars.
     
  12. ljutic231

    ljutic231 TS Member

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    Total out lay for a bunker with 15 new machines with a pavilion will cost very close to $200,000. Good Luck as it will never pay for itself.
     
  13. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Ljutic231....

    Sorry to disagree. We just built one in Gainesville, Fl. Civil work was about $20K including cover. Traps were about $50K. For $200k We could build almost 4 bunkers. If properly managed they can pay for themselves.

    Tom
     
  14. mwmd

    mwmd Member

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    Hi Chase,

    I would like to contribute/help, good plan

    Mike W
    Scottsdale, AZ

    Will send you a email
     
  15. OlympicTrapShooter

    OlympicTrapShooter TS Member

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    I will agree with Tom.
    Bunkers pay for themselves very fast. Like i said 3 bunkers makes you eligible to hold international events. That would most likely pay for half or more in one shoot.
     
  16. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    There are going to be budget cuts on everything because of the housing crisis for starters, jobs being lost, and just about any and everything else that deals with money ... I knew that Fish and Game took a big hit, but was not aware it was that big ... I'm not sure your going to get 12 Million in donations to cover the difference ... It would be interesting to have a bunker locally but from an economic standpoint it don't seem like it would happen, but you never know, you know ..? I have been told that the facility at Ben Avery is planned to be the Premuier shooting facility in the State of Arizona ... I think Steve has a Bunker at the LasVegas gun club, if anyone would know the associated costs, profits, etc it would be Steve ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  17. OlympicTrapShooter

    OlympicTrapShooter TS Member

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    Cadry owns the bunker up there. He is also trying to get a bunker down here. And Las Vegas gun club is closing down.
     
  18. OlympicTrapShooter

    OlympicTrapShooter TS Member

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    Just wanted to say thanks to all the emails i have gotten. If you have emailed me you are on my mailing list and i will email you updates and answers to questions. Thanks again.

    Chase Karvanek
     
  19. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    If Cadry owns the bunker set up in LasVegas and wants to put a bunker down here why don't they get together with the people at Az Fish and Game and put one in at Ben Avery ..? How much are you looking to get in donations and what are the related costs to set this up ..? Where is the money going that gets donated by the shooters ..? There are many unanswered questions ... Not sure when Steve is shutting the place in LasVegas down but I'm sure he will notify people in advance once he knows for sure ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  20. LV Trapshooting Park

    LV Trapshooting Park TS Member

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    The bunker at our facility was built by Art Curtis for his son, Adam, to practice Int'l dbls trap in preparation for World competition. Adam went on to win two Junior World Chammpionships, but then sidelined his shooting for a while. The Las Vegas Gun Club provided the Curtis's the property to build their bunker to support this effort, but plays no role in it's operation. Cadry Genena and a few other International trapshooters here operate it today, with the agreement that anyone can come and shoot with them when they are there.
    Feasibility of a bunker as a money-maker for a club would be questionable. Phoenix and San Antonio both had multiple bunkers that went by the wayside from non-use. As bunkers are used to train shooters to represent our country in World and Olympic competitions, it looks like some government entity should be involved to subsidize the cost of their installation. However, I have never known of that to happen.
    When I was shooting bunker for the military in the late 60's, domestic bunker tournaments around the U.S. generally had the same 30 or 40 shooters in attendance, which included the Army & Air Force teams, plus a couple of Marine and Navy shooters. In Europe, the Grand Prix tournaments were usually 100 to 150 shooters, and the European Championships might have 300. It simply isn't a volume game as we have become accustomed to in American style trap.
    As the 2012 Olympic games are in London, there seems to be a greater interest, so maybe Bunker will grow over the next couple of years. I know my own son, Stef, wants to take a shot at it, so who knows.

    Steve Carmichael,

    Las Vegas Gun Club

    (still alive and kicking thru 2009!)
     
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