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Tips for Shoot Offs

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by yendor12, Feb 17, 2011.

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  1. yendor12

    yendor12 Member

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    OK I am a fairly good 27yrd shooter, I can hold my own at protectors BUT when it come to backing up 45-50 feet off the 27 yrd line for the game winning shot, I just can't seem to win.
    Hearing everyons talk about more shot, bigger shot, faster shot, less shot. I think I have heard and tried lots of different approaches.
    I think there is some luck at these distances but what I do see is the same few people winning more than others. Do they aim lower accounting for the shot drop? Do they shoot a flater gun?
    I would like to hear your constructive thoughts on your technique and maybe some secret shells you may use, lol.
    Rod
     
  2. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Rod, I believe a flat shooting gun with about a 12 foot lead is what your looking for in a hard angle target. Some shooters just can't lead a target that much as they think that it is too much. Give this a try. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  3. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Rod, it seems that everytime we have a raffle at our club certain people seem to win more than others. The best advice I have been given is "trust your gun and your load." Find a shell, powder and wad combination that produces well for you, then vary your shot size according to your position on the line i.e. first or fifth man and distance. Seems most of the game shooters I know enjoy developing different loads almost as much as playing the game. Again, "trust your gun and your load," and can I interest you in a raffle ticket?

    Robert
     
  4. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    robertT is dead on--the best game shooter i know, has this to say--shoot an 80% barrel, 32/1000 choke,32in barrel on an automatic,be a lil bit of an aimer,shoot 1350 ft shells w/#6shot,---now dont laugh-use a very small front bead!! your bead width at that range makes a big differance in lead vs the seen size of target!!! --now the most important thing--CONTROL the end of the barrel, very lil movement makes a HUGE differance!! he says most shooters down the line , arent locked visually on to the target until they realize they have to shoot-thats when they start jerking!!
     
  5. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    I knew one of the best at these types of shoots. His recipe for success was a flatter shooting gun, faster shells, bigger shot size.
    Steve Balistreri
     
  6. WindyOneNW

    WindyOneNW TS Member

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    you just need to get to know your gun. You have to learn to shoot those long targets just as you did 27 yard targets. More practice and trial and error. A good shell helps also. I like a faster shell with #6 shot for those targets. On some very long shots I have shot under the target by as much as 5 feet give or take and I am surprised when they break. One thing I like to do, on practice if I am the only shooter on my practice squad I like to mess around and ride the targets way out and try shooting them at all different ranges. I try to do at least one round of this each time out. I usually make it my last round but doing that can help you when it counts. Good Luck.

    **Disclaimer: I assume no responsibility if your trap scores suffer due to practicing any of the above information!**
     
  7. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    One thing that very rarely gets discussed on this forum is the "buffering" of these heavier loads. I've been reloading for games for years and can hold my own with anybody on a good day. I shoot 11/8oz of 6's in a STS hull using Herco powder pushing about 1300fps for my call shot. For everything else, I load 11/4oz of 5's in a Federal Paper hull, using Herco and buffer to achieve the desired 1330fps I'm after. The buffering really makes the difference at the longer yardages. It holds a much tighter pattern for a much longer shot. Almost to the man, I've yet to encounter a serious game shooter that will reveal his "true" load. They will give you just enough information to totally confuse you. Trust me when I say this: It's a trial and error situation. Once you have found the load that works for you, throw away the recipe so no one else can load it. Why share a closely guarded game load when you are going to have to compete with the guy that has that same load? May as well just hand him the money and save your shell..... Dan Thome(Trap2)
     
  8. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Windy one, Thank You for validationg my point on a flat shooting gun.(surprised target broke shooting 5 feet below it) Now if you can break targets from the 27 with a ll50 fps load using #8's (Grand handicap this year) why would you ever need more than a 7 l/2's at 1250 fps. Think about it. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  9. WindyOneNW

    WindyOneNW TS Member

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    Pull & Mark- Well interestingly enough, I was shooting 27 yards with a friend last week and I ran out of nitro 27's and began using STS light 7.5's at 1145 fps (1175fps from my gun) and I noticed much better breaks than with the HNDC loads. On right and left angles I lead the target by 3-4 feet and had good centered breaks.

    On that target you commented on above, I was at a games shoot last weekend and I was the 4 shooter on a target missed by the first three shooters, the target was a nearly a straight away for me from post 3 but was less than 3 feet off the ground when I hit it and I am certain I was shooting a 1360 fps shell, the reason this sticks out in my mind so well is that I was shocked by how much under the target I shot to break it as it was falling fast also. About 5 feet give or take, it is very difficult to judge that for certainty at that distance but with all things up for interpretation it may give the OP or anyone else a place to start on these difficult shots.

    Also not sure how you picked up on my advocation of flat shooting guns but I should have mentioned that I do like a flat shooting gun for all trap shooting, I shoot 60/40 and would not be able to successfully shoot anything more than say 70/30.
     
  10. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Windyone, For the same reason a 27 yard shooter has to change his adj. rib for shooting on the 16 yard line. Otherwise your sight picture changes. On a flat shooting gun its just the same look or sight picture for every shot at any distance. On a 70/30 or more gun the farther the target gets from you the lower you have to hold your gun, until its so low that your sub-conscience will not let your conscience get the right lead. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  11. loop02

    loop02 Member

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    I shoot 3" 1300'/ sec. Black Winchester turkey shells in a Mx 2000.1 3/4 oz. #5 shot. On an angle I would say 15' in front, and 5' under. that is the second shot in a Protection shoot off. The pad is 54 yd. back from the trap. The second shot is close to a hundred yards. The gun shoots about 100% high. I also use 2 3/4 " 1 1/2 0z. turkey shells on the first shot #5 or# 6. And yes they kick! One person touched on a good point. Our club is open to private practice sessions.I practice shoot offs. I will set the trap on a staightaway, and figure out the lead and elevation. Then I lock it on 1/4 angle, and do the same, angles, etc. I shoot about a hundred shootoff shells some weeks. 50 1 1/2 oz. is a good days work. I use reloads for practice,Federal hull, 31 grains of longshot,Winchester red wad, winchester primer 1 1/2 oz. 6's or 4's. 1300 ft./sec. I use an ivory mid bead that I got from brownells for a bead. We have guys that have been doing this weekly for 25 years. They are tough to beat. One time 1 hit seven in a row. I have also missed seven in a row.
     
  12. WindyOneNW

    WindyOneNW TS Member

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    Pull & Mark - That is so true, makes me wonder sometimes why people are messing with POI on these adjustable guns. If I had an adjustable POI I would still set it for 60/40 and shoot it the same for singles and handicap. Very few people can really shoot a 80/20 or 90/10 POI and shoot their average or above, most will shoot much below their average and would be better off had they chose to shoot a 60/40 POI. I feel that if you can really run the 16 yard targets you should be able to do the same any place all the way back and never have the need to raise or lower POI. A hard fact for many to grasp is that most people could not be consistently competitive from the 16 yard line, if they cannot break 100/100 consistently from the 16 yard line would you really expect them to light the world on fire from the 25, 26 or 27? Messing with POI is like driving blind folded in my opinion, it may feel right but you can't see where you are going. Anyway, just wanted to share what really works for me. Great posts I have enjoyed it.
     
  13. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    +2 or 3 on the flat shooting and shoot under comments. It took me a good while to figure it out, and I still didn't believe it once I did. So I had to plot the shot drop curves and the target path curve and compare. Guess what? What I saw in the field was correct. You have to shoot WAAAAY under the bird at long range with a high shooting gun. In the last 10 yards, that target is dropping FAST, much faster than the shot drops. So you had better be aiming under if you want to break it.

    Here are some POI figures for flat shooting guns. The format is 50/60/70/80 yards.

    POI 0" high @ 40 yards= -1/-3/-6.5/-11.5

    POI 2" high @ 40 yards= +1.5/0/-3/-7.5

    POI 4" high @ 40 yards= +4/+3/+0.5/-3.5/

    POI 6" high @ 40 yards= +6.5/+6/+4/0

    POI 8" high @ 40 yards= +9/+9/+7.5+4.5

    For any higher POI at 40, the shot just keeps getting higher. For a 16" high @ 40 yard gun (100+%), the shot is still more than 20" high at 80 yards. The target drops more than 4' in its last two yards of flight. To center a target 75 yards away with this POI, you would have to aim almost 6' under it.
     
  14. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    The above just goes to show why, when they say "Time for Fun& Games!", you see the guys going back to their vehicles to get out the ol' Mod 12 3 inchers!
     
  15. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    I shoot 27 yrd targets with 100% poi and shoot quick, I don't do well at games with this poi unless I'm the first shooter.
     
  16. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Flip a coin, save yourself the stress....LOL
     
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