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Time for serious post about wads

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by nipper, Aug 19, 2008.

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  1. nipper

    nipper TS Member

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    they leave just as much plastic in overbored too

    bill
     
  2. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I tried the DR TGT12 clones I liked them. I did not weigh them though. All but the stiched pedals looked very close to the same. Local availability keeps me from useing them more. Also I like the Remington stiched pedals. They stay put on the wad ram/guide.
     
  3. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    I've used the Downrange TGT12 copies with great success; i.e great patterns, no build-up, in both my SKB 85TSS and BPS Trap guns. Matter of fact, I haven't seen plastic build-up as an issue, as I clean my guns typically after every shoot. I've also used the CB4118s a lot when I was throwing 1 1/8 oz loads from shorter distances. Now, I just use them for 1 oz loads using 23 gr of Green Dot in A-A hulls. Better crimps with fluffier powders. HTH - AndyH
     
  4. ljunatic

    ljunatic Member

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    I have a case of original Windjammers and they are a pain in the arse to load compared to the DownRange clones. I have settled on using a bag of originals every thousand or so DR wads to keep my blood pressure lower
     
  5. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    I've tried them all, Winchester, Windjammer, Down-range, Claybuster. I use the heavier claybuster and/or Down-range (blue) for Caps and the yellow winjammer or the purple Down-range for my 1oz 16yd loads. Winchester for my 7/8oz. For some reason the DR's get caught in the hull and don't seat all the way down. Probably happens 1 or 2 out of three. Other than that it's all good. Dave T.
     
  6. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    Andy, I don't know what a "great pattern" is- can you define it for me. Thanks.
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

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    The worst fouling wad I ever used was a case of Federal 12SO's.

    Claybusters do not give me problems. I sell Duster wads, and they might foul less than the CB wads.

    Shooting them in the six tournament guns I now have does not present me with a fouling problem in any of them with any wad I use, including some ANCIENT Activ and Hodgdon wads.
     
  8. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    "Andy, I don't know what a "great pattern" is- can you define it for me. Thanks. "

    Very equal distribution of pellets with a dense core and no "escape" holes. I basically use a .030 choke for all but "porch" shooting. HTH -AndyH
     
  9. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

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    A good pattern through a good Trap choke turns a Pitch target into a puff of diesel smoke. It turns a Bio target into talcum powder!
     
  10. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I've only had serious buildup with the CB0178-12, which is the clone of the WT-12 Western Wad. Both of these, original and clone, won't cut it with loads much over 1150 and at longer yardages. I've tested several loads and the patterns were dismal. They are probably OK for skeet, 16s, or first shot in doubles. The CB1118-12 seem to be slightly better and there was less fouling, in my estimation, but there was fouling. The original WAA12 Winchester wads are a bit better in that respect and the patterns are somewhat better from the 3 Dram loads.

    The WAA12SL Winchester wads (Pink) are fine. The CB1100-12 clone is not too bad either, but the newer Downrange clone seemed to work closer to the original. The real test was at low temps. That is where the difference between them became apparent, The Claybuster lost some velocity and wasn't as consistent as the Winchester or Downrange clone.

    The Winchester WAA12L (Gray) wad and Claybuster clone are alright for most 7/8 oz loads at closer ranges and velocities up to about 1250 fps or a touch higher. The Winchester original has the edge for pattern, higher velocity loads, and cold weather performance.

    The Claybuster clones of the Windjammer are OK and the Downrange version is alright as well. The original Windjammer seems a bit better. I don't shoot many of these anymore, since they don't appear to pattern as well from my guns and slow down the loading process. Same goes for the Claybuster "Lightning" clones. The only real advantage is reduced pressure in some loads, but it will sometimes require more powder to reach the desired velocity. The patterns from all of these seem to deteriorate at higher velocities. They seem to work better around 1150fps, or less. I haven't shot or patterned too many of the Downrange "orange" version, since I just obtained some recently. The ones I have tested didn't seem to change my mind about the Jammer designs. The Jammer XL's, except the 8 petal XL-1, were a bit better, but not exceptional. The Purple 8 petal XL-1 wad is a pain to load, as are all of the 8 petal jammer styles.

    The Remington TGT12S is a great wad. The Claybuster clone is also pretty good. The Downrange version seemed fine also. The same goes for the Fig 8 wads and clones. I didn't see much difference between the clones of either manufacture and little between the original and clones. I'll select them by whatever ones I can get at a decent price, or use the originals if they are close. I use the TGT12S style wads quite a bit, since I shoot mostly 1oz loads.

    The Federal 12S3 is a good wad in straight walled hulls, as is the 12S0. The Downrange clone of the 12S3 works fine and is a decent wad. The Claybuster CB2118-12 is about as good, but not at much over 1200 fps. The CB2100-12 (1oz) is pretty good and at moderate velocities, it gives a great pattern. The original 12S0 does great at higher velocities. The XXL Orange Downrange that is "supposed" to be a replacement for the 12S0 did not work well for me. Neither of these XXL (Orange or Pink) wads performed well for me at all. They didn't crimp all that well either. That was about the biggest disappointment I had with Downrange wads.

    The Downrange Red Versalite has proved to be one of the best handicap wads I have used to date. It was great some years ago when it was Hornady or Pacific. It is still a good wad and has worked well at velocities over 1250 fps. I'll use a slightly more open choke at closer yardages, since the pattern is pretty tight up close and is very even and well distributed with the Mod - IM chokes at closer yardage. I'll go with Full past the 23-24. This wad travels pretty far out and is very visible at night under the lights.

    I can't say much about the Claybusters in over bored barrels. I didn't shoot enough of them in a larger bore barrel to get a good idea of fouling. They didn't seem to perform well at cold temps and I stuck with the Original Winchester and Remington wads in the one I have. It measured around .745" if my memory serves me.

    I used the Duster Wads for several years until I ran into a bad batch a few years ago. The Blue and Green Dusters would shatter the over powder cups at lower temperatures. These loads sounded off as well. The velocities were reduced in the affected rounds and the patterns were horrible in the off sounding ones. I used up most of what I had the following summer and have never gone back to them. I lost confidence in the brand, since they didn't seem too concerned or surprised when I contacted them.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Plastic Build Up- I have tried several times to figure out a way to measure plastic build up in my barrels from different wads. So far, I have been unsuccessful. I do know that simply looking down the barrel or looking at a cleaning brush after it has gone through the barrel will not give me any valid data. I can't compare plastic build up rates of different wads because I don't know how to measure it.

    Patterns- Comparison of patterns of similar loads but with different wads is very time consuming. The patterns of each different load is a lot of holes to count. several years I did do this with the Claybuster 1 1/8 AA white wad and Winchester factory wads. I found no difference.

    My Test of Wads- The only valid way I know to test wads is to measure the consistency of the chamber pressure and the velocity produced by the wads. Claybuster wads do result in consistent chamber pressure with one exception. The AA orange Claybuster wads do not work well at lower temperatures. The white AA and pink AA wads work well over a wide temperature range. It is very convenient to live a few miles from the Alliant powder plant. They have great testing facilities.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. WoodsonEnt

    WoodsonEnt Active Member

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    You will see much more buildup with Claybuster wads than with Downrange. Downrange uses top quality plastic that keeps plastic fouling to a minimum. I load and sell Downrange, and see the difference. It is amazing.

    Matt - Woodson Enterprises
    "The Scattergun Store"
    (270) 804-5454
     
  13. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    I was working up a reduced pressure/velocity load for an old L. C. Smith trap gun. I noticed that the faster the load the more plastic was deposited (truly low speed loads left none), thus I suspect that those who are getting plastic build up with a given load in a given gun are shooting a faster round than those who do not have the problem with similar conditions.

    Have you fired over a chronograph with the loads that leave plastic in the barrel??

    Food for thought.
     
  14. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Plastic buildup in chokes is not just caused by the material from which the wad was made, the profile of the choke as even more to do with it. Stu Wright proved that to me the first day I met him and if you reread the previous posts to this thread, you'll see there are people who get no plastic from the same wads that others are cursing.

    I was getting plastic residue in the chokes of my then-new KX-5 and trolled vendor's row at the 2002 Grand in search of other chokes, thinking Krieghoff's weren't finished well because my old Krieghoffs with fixed chokes didn't "plastic up" with the same wads. Stu was the only person who asked me why I wanted to replace a brand-new gun's chokes and when I told him, he asked me what constriction I shot, sent me to the practice traps with one of his tubes and told me to come back after I shot at 100 targets with it. There was almost no plastic in the tube.

    If your choke has a lot of parallel - the untapered portion at the muzzle end - the tapered portion will be shorter and the taper will be sharper. The sharper the taper, the more a choke will scrub plastic from wads. This is especially true of short chokes like Krieghoff's, Remington's and others. For shooting and testing, I've shot wads of about every brand out there through the Wright's chokes I have in almost every shotgun I own and none of those wads left any appreciable amount of plastic in my chokes.

    Ed
     
  15. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Averaged

    There may be something to your theory, since the extended chokes in some barrels and most decent fixed chokes do not show much plastic buildup when the flush chokes do. However, there is also a good amount found in the forcing cone area in some barrels as well. Some with less taper in that area have experienced a bit more fouling than others. It may be the finish or the loads, but I do get plastic in the choke AND the forcing cones. It only becomes a problem when it is noticable and requires a little extra effort to remove it. Until now, the only wads that were really bad were the Orange CB0178-12 Claybusters in my barrels and loads. Others were difficult to assess, since there was no really good method for comparison other than visual. I'm sure if I thought about it and found a system to measure it, there might be some graph Neil already has to put it to shame. :)
     
  16. shrek

    shrek Active Member

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    I think that AveragEd has nailed a lot of it down.

    I also have a lot of plastic wad build up in both of my Grade I 525 sporting clays guns barrels right in front of the forcing cones no matter what wads I use, which aggravates me, although it probably has little effect on performance.

    These guns have 3" chambers and either have real abrupt forcing cones or real rough ones or both. It happens in both barrels of both guns.

    I am considering getting the cones lengthened and polished to see if the problem goes away.

    Neither of my 2 BT-99's with trulock and wrights chokes ever has little if any plastic build-up in it ever running factory, dusters or down range products.
     
  17. Dave P

    Dave P TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    From experience I say that porting has a lot to do with plastic accumulation and more so with some wads than others.
     
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