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Three hole targets changed to two hole

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Trap4, Oct 29, 2010.

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  1. Trap4

    Trap4 Member

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    A discussion at our club the other day led to when tha ATA went from 3 hole targets to 2 hole targets. Am sure it can be answered here. Thanks

    Trap-4
     
  2. 391 shooter

    391 shooter Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again.
     
  3. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Clubs started cheating back in the 70's. The ATA target policemen never got around to any clubs to enforce the rule. Most were too large to fit in the traphouse opening anyway!!
     
  4. Trap4

    Trap4 Member

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    391 shooter, I have never seen the year it was changed, that is all I would like to know. Why the comment on Here we go again??

    Trap-4
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    8/22/1996

    Neil
     
  6. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    And a sad day for trapshooting it was...

    Bob
     
  7. Trap4

    Trap4 Member

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    Neil, thank you very much, should of asked you first.

    trap-4
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "Neil, thank you very much, should of asked you first."

    Maybe you should have even though Neil didn't respond to you inquiry totally honestly. You said in the original post,

    "A discussion at our club the other day led to when tha ATA went from 3 hole targets to 2 hole targets."

    That isn't a question it is a statement about when the ATA started shooting 2 hole targets. What Neil has given you is the official date the ATA adopted the persent rule. The present target presentation was officially put in the rulebook 8/22/96.

    2 hole targets were being presented long before that without being in the rulebook whether he cares to admit it or not.

    So when 391 shooter said "Here we go again" it was because this discussion has come up literally many, many time before. Just try some light reading you might be enlightened or disillusioned depending on your prospective.

    http://www.trapshooters.com/noframes/cfpages/thread.cfm?threadid=223033

    http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?Threadid=225368&ShowDeleted=Yes&SortBy=ASC#692192

    http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?threadid=204159

    Those are just a few of the very many that searches will reveal. So I would say maybe you can understand why you got the reaction that you did.

    You started the thread with no real question just a statement about a discussion at your club. You said you presented it here because you were sure you could get an answer. Yet when you got comments here you weren't ready for they didn't satisfy you.

    Neil gave you a date yet he didn't answer the question yet you are satisfied so if that is the way you wish to leave it so be it just remember you are the one that must make that decision.

    Please remember just because you come here looking for a fix to a problem and you don't get just what you wish that to is a decision you made. Some here have different opinions and beliefs than you are looking for.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. alfermann66

    alfermann66 Member

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    Feel better after your rant, Ivanhoe?

    Buz
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    No, no, no, Bob. You can't put words into Trap4's mouth like that. Nor in mine, for that matter.

    You pasted trap4's question correctly.

    "A discussion at our club the other day led to when tha ATA went from 3 hole targets to 2 hole targets."

    But then you feel you have a right to add your own word "started." Trap4 did not write "started;" you did. Here's your text:

    "That isn't a question it is a statement about when the ATA started shooting 2 hole targets." The idea you added was "started."

    I answered trap4's question. In contrast, you made up your own question and blamed me for not answering it. That's either carelessness or worse.

    If you don't accept trap4's post as a question then why are you answering it?

    Your post is in factual error, by the way. The two-hole rule (I wrote it, but in 1995 when it didn't pass)
    was passed at the BOD meeting on the 22nd, but it was not put into the rulebook until a bit later. Again, I consider carelessness of this magnitude almost unforgivable.

    Trap4 asked a short, simple, direct question. That's the kind of answer I gave him; it seemed to be the kind he wanted and his response indicates I was right. If others want to editorialize they are free to do so, but they are not answering the question trap4 asked, nor are you. However, in their case, they are not _claiming_ to answer trap4's question.

    If, in the same spirit, you want to type your own questions and answer them yourself I guess there's no rule against it. It just seems kind of pointless, that's all.

    Neil
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Well Neil in the first place I was explaining why he got the comment "Here we go again"

    In the second place Neil I would like you to explain to me how you find a question in this statement.

    "A discussion at our club the other day led to when tha ATA went from 3 hole targets to 2 hole targets."

    You can NO, NO, NO, all you wish but you will not make a question out of that statement no matter how hard you try.

    "Your post is in factual error, by the way. The two-hole rule (I wrote it, but in 1995 when it didn't pass) was passed at the BOD meeting on the 22nd, but it was not put into the rulebook until a bit later. Again, I consider carelessness of this magnitude almost unforgivable."

    Well gee Neil no one else here even forgives me for the fact that I post here period. So if I am not all broken up about what you find unforgivable there isn't a lot more to worry about is there.

    BTW while we are on the subject of unforgivable, I would seem to me in an earlier discussion on 3 hole target. I remember you saying that the targets are set the same now as when you started or something to that effect in the ATA which if memory serves me correctly was in the neighborhood of 82 to 85. If that is the case how can you just give a date and say it answers a question when a date was never asked for. You know 2 hole target were being thrown before that date as well as the rest of us do. Or maybe I am being careless again. Or is it just more truth from the big Winston?????????

    Neil I will tell you what don't bother to answer I won't get the truth from you anyway all I will get is what Neil want everyone to believe. Also I acknowledged the fact that the date you gave was correct. So I don't care who wrote it it is irrelevant.

    So as far as I am concerned Neil I consider BS of this magnitude more than unforgivable. BTW before you deny it I included in the light reading list I gave to trap4.

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    If truly wanting to know when a club or clubs started actually throwing a lesser degree angle (ie 2 holer) although most likely done before, I know that it was being done actively in the mid 70's.
     
  13. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting King of Pheasant's. It didn't hit MA until well into the 80's. We were not the first in the state but were forced to by the marketplace. Unfortunately, I agree with the three holers but we'll never see it go back there IMO. Hope the pheasant's and all else are going well for you.
     
  14. Trap4

    Trap4 Member

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    I am soo sorry for asking a Simple Question, and causing All these Negative threads, although some understood what I asked, thanks to you All that answered it correctly and politely, also thank you Neil Winston for understanding my thread and Question, to the rest of you Come on don"t be soo negative when some one askes a Question.

    Trap-4
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    No problem, Trap-4. Bob is, as you can see, not a skilled user of English - if he were, he would have realized that a prefatory statement (in contrast to a question) is often used to elicit information in cases where a bald interrogatory would seem out of place or rude.

    Consider that old joke. A cultural tourist is on Seventh Avenue and, seeing someone carrying a cello case states:"Excuse me, but I wonder if you can tell me how I can get to Carnegie Hall." Now that is just a statement as Bob will no doubt point out, but in our verbal community, it is a request for directions. I took your post to be a cognate, a polite request for information. Why this set off a rocket in Bob's butt is anyone's guess, but there you have it.

    As I am sure you noticed, the amazing thing about Bob is his lack of self-awareness. While I was thinking about an example of a statement being used as a question I almost stumbled over his next sentence:

    "So if I am not all broken up about what you find unforgivable there isn't a lot more to worry about is there."

    Which is, of course, a statement used as a question. Just the opposite of the valley-girl? And her upspeak?

    (edited)

    Neil
     
  16. Trap4

    Trap4 Member

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    Neil, if you ever come to the Cardinal Center , where the Ohio State shoot is held, please leave me know, and a meal, whatever you want is on me. I will be there for the Buckeye classic, State shoot and the Cardinal classic.

    Trap-4
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I was there a year ago and had a good time. If I can make it again I'll look you up; that's a promise, trap-4.

    Neil
     
  18. Trap4

    Trap4 Member

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    Neil, will be looking forward to meeting you.

    Trap-4

    Alex E. Thomas
     
  19. 3357

    3357 Member

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    Ivanhoe,

    Throw the drug you are taking away, it is no good.
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "If you don't accept trap4's post as a question then why are you answering it?"

    Neil I am not answering it I am answering the one that I understood was a question.

    "391 shooter, I have never seen the year it was changed, that is all I would like to know. Why the comment on Here we go again??"

    So Neil tell us why this one was so clearly a question, he had no trouble making it appear as a question.

    Which for the second time is what I was answering. Whether you believe that or not. You suit yourself my statements about his OP were why I thought he got the response for 391.

    BTW Neil the first sentence of that quote is what I thought you responded to for two reason. One he didn't ask for a date in the OP. Two you didn't respond until after he actually asked the question I responded to. I just thought your answer was incomplete is keeping with some of your past statements about 2-hole vs 3-hole targets.

    Well Neil you have done exactly what I said you would do.

    "Neil I will tell you what don't bother to answer I won't get the truth from you anyway all I will get is what Neil want everyone to believe."

    I also didn't here you say Yeh or Ney to that other subject I mentioned but that ties right into my last quote also.

    "I took your post to be a cognate, a polite request for information. Why this set off a rocket in Bob's butt is anyone's guess, but there you have it."

    Funny thing is it didn't Neil I simply was making an attempt to explain the "Here we go again" comment. Now we have me with a rocket up my Butt. The rocket got set off when you came in here giving your opinion of what I have said,

    "Again, I consider carelessness of this magnitude almost unforgivable."

    Like what you "consider" should mean anything to me. Right!!!!!

    So you have it your way once again you have blown smoke instead of coming clean on the target issue. You have managed to make this about what I understand and what I have to say when you don't have a clue about what I understand. Well you may not like what I have said but you are the one that openly admited to setting targets contrary to the rules. If memory serves me correctly you also said the rule isn't going back to 3-hole no matter what. Do you want me to look that one up for you to????

    Bob Lawless
     
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