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Thoughts please on shooting a Model 21 from 16

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Bushmaster1313, Aug 17, 2010.

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  1. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone shoot a Model 21 for doubles from 16?

    Is it fun to shoot?

    How much choke is needed for good results.

    I only compete against myself and have an opportunity to trade an SBT for a 21.

    Thanks

    Lou
     
  2. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Thoughts pls on shootng a Model 21 from 16

    Shooting ANY SxS is a hoot, and especially so at doubles.

    In fact, it can be an advantage: use the recoil from your first barrel to help set-up the second shot.

    Ambush-sweep the first bird and swat the second. Annnndddd, you have an advantage in picking which bird you want to shoot first.

    If you practice and learn your tool and your trade, there's no reason you can't be competitive in class, neither.

    Bob
     
  3. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    I need to convince the owner of the 21 to swap it for my Baker.

    I do plan on shooting it but only for relatively light duty use
     
  4. The Stive

    The Stive Member

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    If you are lucky enough to own a 21, then shoot it. I can only dream about it.
    I let a 21 trap get away at a auction some years ago. John
     
  5. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Bush ... HONOR the old girl ... shoot her hard and long and lots.

    'Light' in a well-made gun is ... 100k ... more.

    And your grandkids can put another couple of hundred tho through her.
     
  6. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    I need to reel her in before I can shoot her!
     
  7. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

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    Lou, Your Baker could be worth more than his 21. I shoot a 5e sxs at doubles quite often. Shoot it better most of the time than my o/u. Bill
     
  8. bluedsteel

    bluedsteel Member

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    A very generous gent let me shoot 5 singles targets with his Model 21. His had a high-comb (not Monte-Carlo) custom stock, as well as a ventilated rib. The gun was an absolute thrill to shoot, and it shot well for me.

    I hear that Model 21's can have punishing recoil, but this one didn't, at least for the five shots I fired. Since that experience, I occasionally find myself getting weak for one.

    bluedsteel
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I tried it. When I was doing some stock/engraving work I bought a M-21. Made a custom stock just for me. Engraved the gun with some nice gold inlays. I shot 5 pair of doubles from one post. I believe it kicked by brain and a few teeth out of my head. I found the teeth but lost my brain. Sold the gun and and had a custom Holland and Holland made for me. That lasted about as long as my M 21 experiment for doubles. I like side by sides for bird hunting but they are not , for me, trap guns.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    You're right Pat. Time to dig out my John Harper 20 and get ready for Fall with my new girl Annie. A good Setter should be followed by a side by side. :)
     
  11. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    I own Cap Grier's Model 21 that John Olin made for him in 1938 after he shot on the world record doubles squad, also shooting a Model 21. Other members of the squad, don't remember how many, also shot Model 21s. Grier was not only a world record type of guy, he was a Winchester company shooter. I am still shooting the gun today, 72 years later. I think the Model 21 is an acceptable doubles gun.
     
  12. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    I grew up shooting a Sterlingworth Fox and I accompanied Steve Barnett to the Orvis Vintage shoot several years ago. I paid the fee to shoot "down the line" trap and picked up a high grade L.C.Smith off of Steve's table that felt right and had long barrels and went to the line. Everybody looked funny when I asked if I could fire one round to be sure the gun would work and proceeded to break a 97 and win the tournament. Doubles was a bit toughter until I figured out that you have to hold completely off the side of the house or you will definitely l;ose the target under the barrels. I don't remember my score but I did finish in third place. Recoil is a bit rough with just about any double gun. I have a permanant scar on my third finger of my right hand from the trigger guard of that old fox.
     
  13. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    A friend let me shoot his prized M21 for a round of doubles. The gun was choked full and full (it was his dad's duck gun). I shot a decent score of 47/50 and really enjoyed the experience but I don't think I would want to shoot that gun all day. The recoil ssemed to end up mostly in my cheek and I don't think it would take much of that to develope a nasty flinch. If I were fortunate enough to own one of these guns I would shoot it and hunt with it but I wouldn't try to make it my trap gun.
     
  14. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Does the offset increase the perceived recoil?
     
  15. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    No, not per se, but you'll have to get used to how the gun torques, esp in doubles.

    As is the case with EVERY gun, (assuming 'normal' clays loads, of course), 99% +++ of felt recoil is closely related to stock design, fit, stance, ...

    If the M21 you're looking at is a 'trap' gun, with a ± parallel comb, it will feel somewhat familiar, and changing pitch a bit will, likely tame it nicely.

    'Field' guns are a different story, with different design fundamentals.

    The M21 is a big, massive, heavy gun and will soak up a good bit of shock, itsownself.

    Get the pitch right, put another Jostam pad on her, and turn her loose to maim, destroy, pillage ... her heritage, yanno.

    Bob
     
  16. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    My ZZ bird is a SxS.. I shoot it better than my O/U.. The wide front end helps my poor vision greatly..
     
  17. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Bill, I think there are a couple of things at issue shooting a SxS.

    Yeah, fit is paramount, and most SxS are hunting guns with more drop, but add to that a SxS 'fits' & 'grips' differently and most people don't 'mate' with a SxS as firmly as they do with an OU.

    Even with more drop, a good mount doesn't face-slap, overly.

    Wood is cheap, anyhow.


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  18. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Goatskin, what is that gun? Is it yours? All three of my Model 21 vent rib traps are factory special order guns. Most serious shooters know about parallel combs and correct pitch and order their guns that way. Two of my guns were factory ordered with very high parallel combs. The Grier gun is more of a standard drop, but almost 15" long. A fourth Model 21 vent rib trap that I sold to a friend a while ago also had a very high comb. I sold it rather than shaving it down. No one is asking you to use a field stocked Model 21 for ATA trap shooting.
     
  19. PAR8HED

    PAR8HED Member

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    I've got a Webley & Scott in both 12 & 28ga. I call the 12ga "The Mule" for a few reasons, yup it will slap you in the chops. But man is it fun for 16yd and a round of skeet now and & then. Haven't tried doubles with it, sounds like a great idea for this weekend!

    HJH
     
  20. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    I shot 16's and some skeet with my 21 (field grade, single trigger, ejectors) several times. It was a kicker with light 8's...never did try doubles with it...should have....sold it 4 years ago. I miss owning it...not shooting it...
     
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