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Thoughts about options

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by W.P.T., Aug 29, 2010.

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  1. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Denny,

    I eliminated playing the options except on a very rare occasion ... I used to play most but not all of the money unless I was at the Grand because there it seemed like the thing to do and it proved to be profitable on occasion ... The Top Guns play most of the money because they expect it will create a payday for them at sometime during the shoot if its one of the bigger shoots ...

    I truly feel that some of the bigger shoots should be based on an invitational level and eliminate all options by making all monies mandatory on each individual event played by all of those who choose to shoot it ... The Top Guns would then be shooting against the Top Guns and no doubt some of the I wannbe's who are prepared to open their wallets and play the money until they convince themself that they do not belong there and reality creeps in and they get tired on donating to the real devoted Top Guns ... The invitational part could be limited to lets say the Top 50 shooters from each state, but any of the other shooters from any state could buy their way into the game if they think they can compete on that level or they have been on a hot streak ... The payouts would be quite large based on the number of shooters but everyone who was there shooting an event would have a stake in the game and not just be there for the Peach Ice Cream or freebees from the vendors ...The shoots could obviously be held at some of the bigger clubs but they sure wounld't need a 120 traps or a 3 1/2 mile trapline ... Eliminate the options, make them all mandatory and let the games begin ... This type of shooting format would really separate those that are from those that want to be in a damn quick hurry ... People go and watch Nascar all the time, there would probably be many who would just like to come and watch as the real champions go at it for some real money ... Imagine the Calcutta if you can with all Big Dog and no Little Dogs in it especially if they opened the buying to any one who is present, shooter or not ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  2. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Changing the target setting format also changed the option players. Less players today compared to prior rule change so clubs offer 25 at one money instead of 60/40. Same thing with the 50 options, once was 50/30/20 splits, now usually 60/40. The higher scores have destroyed the averages shooters perception he may play options with the possibility of paying for that event as once was a possibility. Maybe we need a few wobble traps to bring back the perception? OR, increase the target difficulty we once had?

    Hap
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hap- More difficult targets would increase the pay outs by reducing the number of ties that split the purses. The same shooters would win but they would win more.

    I am not certain why so many shooters have quit playing the options and why so many new shooters do not play the options. It might be, and I am guessing, that there are so many other forms of gambling available that betting on shooting has lost its charm.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    Pat I'm not a good shooter, but have placed in the money in at least 3 bigger shoots this year in my area. I would play more of the options if it were a smaller investment. I'll play the slots at a casino, just not the 5.00 dollar ones. If more short yardage shooters would play the options so would I. If you cant at least double your money invested, its not worth the risk that someone else might get lucky.

    Bob
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Pat, who but the best of the best would wager money they will break a 25 in handicaps? OR, a 49/50 either? Those are the three scores needed to win back some today!


    More difficult targets today may have the same effects they did prior the cheating era too! The perception trap shooting once had disappeared when you made the game easier.

    Since I've been here in Ohio, I again asked my deer hunting buddies if they ever received a survey from ATA as to why they no longer shoot registered targets? They've never heard anything from ATA, yet!

    Hap
     
  6. Big Al 29

    Big Al 29 TS Member

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    If you are good enough to win, play the options.

    If not, you are only giving your money away.

    Play the class option if you think you have a shot to run 198-200 and a lewis class for shits and giggles.
     
  7. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    I would like to keep the discussion going and ask an additional question to Lit's original one -- and it is along the same lines...

    Why do some place have a much greater % of people playing options than others. For example, after breaking one of the two 100s on Friday's doubles at the Cardinal Classic, I went up to swipe my card and see what I had won in the lewis. It was $436! For a Lewis! And the other guy with the 100 also played, so that was a split! $872 to the top score in each class - 3 classes, 60/40. For DOUBLES!

    Looking into the stats on that event alone, there were 498 entries in the event and 218 played. Works out to a 43.77% "acceptance rate" for the lewis. AND, it was a $20 lewis.

    I will break down the differences between the Ohio and Indiana State shoots a little later today, if I get time. I know that they will be staggering, because of the payouts at Ohio -- but I want to get down to % played of like type options (lewis, 25s, etc)...

    So, my main question is WHY? I hear the complaint that if the options were cheaper, then I would play them.... but the options at the cardinal center are routinely higher -- $30 for the 200 singles event on Saturday -- which is one of the highest lewis pay-ins I saw all year. It just doesn't make any sense to me..

    John
     
  8. The Stive

    The Stive Member

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    Thoughts on options: Don't like em, won't play em John
     
  9. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    John, take a look again at the data I posted for the Gun Shoot. 48% played the Lewis in the first doubles, 49% in the second. The three singles events all had about 40% participation, while all five handicaps were above 50% participation. All entries were $20 per hundred, except the last handicap, which was $40.
     
  10. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    I have played most of the options for more than 30 years but quit about 5 years ago for one simple reason. There was no return on my investment when I did break a good score.


    I dont mind playing the options because I feel I can break an occasional score but I wont gamble $20 in order to win $25.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  11. shadow

    shadow Active Member

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    No money in options anymore ! That is why I am now a "games" shooter. At least I stand a decent chance to get my $ back, plus a little extra.
     
  12. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    I like the Lewis, 50 straights, and Calcutta's. That's about all I play.
     
  13. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    The cardinal center keeps it simple, they keep it fair, and that is why people are more willing to play the options there. On the championship singles, there was a single Lewis bet for 30 bucks and or 10 bucks for class purse.

    The Lewis at cardinal was a straight lewis and only three classes. Each of the three classes divided 50/30/20. Lots of shooters and just 3 classes is going to create large pots. Not having other options such as 10 bucks on each hundred focuses the money.

    Many shoots use a modified lewis which pushes money into the hands of the best and leaves a much smaller pot for the lower lewis classes. If you see the words "high gun", virtually all of the money will be gone before even getting down to the lower scores. People do not like feeding the top shooters and even if they don't understand the High Gun options, they know it is not favorable to them. So they avoid playing.

    I am looking at the Northeast Grand program and although it will not be as large as the cardinal classic, the options have more classes and are hi gun oriented. Obviously, if the shoot is smaller than the cardinal, less money will be there and because the money table is tilted toward the best shooters, people will avoid the options.
     
  14. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Guess I must be a lucky person, I play the Lewis and 50's as well as the 25''s most times at the bigger shoots. I have always done well. Just an average shooter that is well ahead in what I have bet. I'll keep playing them. J.Woolsey
     
  15. WS-1

    WS-1 Banned User Banned

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    The Literalist

    Sir:

    Allow me to suggest that you rename this thread "The Perils of the Proletariat." Perhaps you and your colleagues would be my guests at our Skeet Fields for Tea and scones and a pleasant afternoon of shooting. I'll try to steer the conversation away from the petty trappings of fees and wagers. Please be kind enough to remind your associates in advance that our dress code encourages the wearing of Tweeds and Tartans.

    Warmest regards, Kit Thomas
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hap- I did not realize you were back in Ohio. Will I get to see you at Middletown in about 3 weeks? I plan to come up and shoot some very high scores. If you are interested, you can pay for my options and I will split the money 60/40 with you. If you don't like 60/40, how about 70/30? I am flexible.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Pat, wish I could stay and shoot but I must get home before the Middletown fun begins. Like you, I'd planned on shooting some great scores too but I'm still waiting for that lightning strike moment! I did manage to squeak by Frank Hoppe in a caps shoot-off at Sparta though!!

    Since I can't be there to play all the options on you, use all that confidence in wagering on your abilities and clean house over there!! That way your wife could buy more antiques!!

    Hap
     
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