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This Union is history

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by smsnyder, Nov 21, 2012.

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  1. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. — Twinkies, Ho Hos and Wonder Bread are up for sale now that a bankruptcy judge cleared the way for Hostess Brands Inc. to fire its 18,500 workers and wind down its operations.

    A last-ditch effort to end a strike with Hostess' bakers union failed Tuesday night and Judge Robert Drain on Wednesday approved the company's request to shut down its business and sell the pieces to the highest bidder.
     
  2. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Quit your job = no unemployment



    Shut the company down = get unemployment!



    Hey...it's a no-brainer for these kinds of people.
     
  3. Barrelbulge(Fl)

    Barrelbulge(Fl) Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    There were multiple unions involved and the Bakers union is the only one that wou;d not give consessions. Bulge.
     
  4. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    I have seen this happen far to many times including within my own family. My oldest son lost his job the same way. He now realizes it may have been better to work for less and let the company survive. They simply closed a stainless steel plant that had been a community energizer for years and a new company opened it back up with lower benefits and pay. SAD! Post edited out of respect for you union believers. You have your opinion and I have mine, it does not change what I believe but I respect yours
     
  5. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Since when do you need a union to be a baker? Especially for a company that gives you the recipe and directs you how to make their product!

    Do union bakers go through an apprentice program?
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    I am this morning John. First time cooking the bird on my own. ;)
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Good unions have good leaders. Bad unions have bad leaders.

    Members that sit back on their heels and pay no attention to what is going on are akin to uninvormed voters who let this country be stolen by fanatics.

    Same poop different shovel.

    HM
     
  8. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    It appears to be true, Hostess executives gave themselves huge raises while under bankruptcy proceedings from 2011. At the same time they were trying to negotiate salary, pension, and benefit cuts to production workers.

    Seems like everyone is to blame.

    Wayne
     
  9. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Bob, When it comes to an oven, I'm a religious cook. Everything is either a burnt offering or a sacrifice.

    BBQ is my gig.

    Have a great Thanksgiving!
     
  10. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    FORBES ARTICLE

    ---------

    In a last, desperate effort to keep the outdated model alive management decided the answer was another bankruptcy filing, and to take draconian cuts to wages and benefits. This is tantamount to management saying to those who sell wheat they expect to buy flour at 2/3 the market price – or to petroleum companies they expect to buy gasoline for $2.25/gallon. Labor, like other suppliers, has a “market rate.” That management was unable to run a company which could pay the market rate for its labor is not the fault of the union.



    Failure was management’s fault.


    By constantly trying to defend and extend its old business, leadership at Hostess killed the company. But not realizing changing trends in foods made their products irrelevant – if not obsolete – and not changing Hostess leaders allowed margins to disintegrate. Rather than developing new products which would be more marketable, priced for higher margin and provide growth that covered all costs Hostess leadership kept trying to financial engineer a solution to make their horse and buggy competitive with automobiles.


    And when they failed, management decided to scapegoat someone else. Maybe eating too many Twinkies made them do it. It’s a Wonder the Ding Dongs running the company kept this Honey Bun alive by convincing HoHos to loan it money! Blaming the unions is simply an inability of management to take responsibility for a complete failure to understand the marketplace, trends and the absolute requirement for new products.


    READ MORE:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2012/11/18/hostess-twinkie-defense-is-a-management-failure/?utm_source=forbespicks%3Dpartner%3Dforbespicks%3Dforbespicks&google_editors_picks=true
     
  11. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Most of us who are union on this site know that this is a bad deal for everyone and is should have been handled differently.

    Cuban......the only times we have problems with people on this site is the unnecessary brow beating for no other reason than personal entertainment. I'm sure you have recognized that behaviour many times reading ts.com.
     
  12. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    So is the Union of the States.


    -------------------------------------------------------



    Michelle did not want us to eat those anyway.

    I bet she is happy.
     
  13. jawingsr

    jawingsr Member

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    Appears to be another Bain Capitol saga with corporate greed being the bottom line .......
     
  14. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Laughable.."Bain Capital saga". Management knew the likelyhood of saving the company was not in the stars. The baker's union was done negotiating, the management and owners gave up and took as much money out as they could before capital gains taxes were increased and bankruptcy procedures started.

    Management was just as much to blame, but an accountant probably advised them to get the operating capital out before year's end.
     
  15. Libra1310

    Libra1310 TS Member

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    And the post of th thread award goes to Joe Potosky for cunningly using pretty much every pun available to describe all parties involved. Well played sir!

    Chris
     
  16. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    And it should be but so should the company, Management as well as the union all needed to make concessions. We are fast headeding down the same path as Greece and Spain if all the give me give me keeps up
     
  17. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    The Forbes alleged free-market analysis in Potosky's post is laughable. It reads like it's written by a pro-union internet poster responding to the article, not someone versed in the workings of a marketplace. The market rate Hostess was really competing against to keep their doors open was the cost - and duration - of unemployment benefits. Money to sit at home, is what the bakers were really after...(but they had to shutter the company to get it).


    And what the blazes is this high-margin strategy the writer is prattling about? Food profit margins are usually modest, unless your product can be marketed as a luxury. When Twinkies were an occasional treat (read, a luxury item), their business model may have been feasible. But we live in the age of the "Busy Mom." When junk food becomes a dietary staple and makes up half the calories consumed by many kids, things change. A third of America is now obese, and junk food isn't a treat anymore - it's a way of life. It's also a commodity. The Wal Marts of the world squeeze their supply chain like a sponge, and don't have room on their shelves for this "magical" high-margin snack cake the intellectually-lazy Forbes article seems to be postulating. Fat America turned the high-volume junk food market into a race to the bottom, and you can't win it paying skilled wages for unskilled work.


    Neither side here were geniuses. Hostess Management tried to make the transition to modern reality...but the bakers' union would rather collect unemployment.


    Swinging back around to that Forbes analysis, let's see what happens when the bakers' union puts their "baking" skills up for sale on the market. My guess is, they'll end up taking jobs that pay no more than what Hostess was offering them. The difference is, with the company shutting down because the bakers' union crippled it with a strike, now they'll get to sit on their asses and collect an unemployment check. (The union may have tried to convince them a buyer was in the wings...and they may have really believed that. But if they miscalculated or were just flat-out wrong, dues revenue to the union would drop to zero, and the workers were going to get unemployment regardless. It was Negotiation 101, and the union failed).


    When you run your business on unskilled labor, and allow a union to get in a position to disrupt your operations and cripple you financially - you are in for trouble. If you're going to pay people skilled wages for unskilled work, you had better be making something people are willing to pay a pretty penny for, with little competition. Because once you get competition, and you have to adjust people's wages to reality - they are going to stomp their feet and head for those unemployment checks.
     
  18. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    It will be okay, I hear both Papa John's and McDonalds are hiring.
     
  19. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    What a pointless read. I suspect the first words, "...Brother Scott...," are all you needed to clue you in that you're listening to commie union propaganda.
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    If a product change was suggested out of necessity I'm sure the bakery union brothers would have protested vehemently, complained to their shop stewards and filed grievances against the company. After all, they were only hired for one aspect of production and any change would need to have been approved by the local. Hours of additional training and safety standards would likely need upgrading.

    All these tidbits are released by a former AGC with Bethlehem Steel(me)and we know where they went and the union was very responsible for the end!!
     
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