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This shouldn’t be tooo controversial…

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by K-80 Jim, Jun 13, 2007.

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  1. K-80 Jim

    K-80 Jim TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
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    I shot a few practice rounds at a local club Sunday and as I walked off the trap I noticed a guy setting up a chronograph. As I emptied the hulls from my pouch he invited several of us to test our loads. Okay, I had a spare shell on me so he had me stand five feet from the unit and shoot through the screens. BANG….1321fps. Wow, what the heck are you shooting? Someone yells, “I’m calling Dean Townsend!” Holy crap I’m instantly criminalized! Okay hold on now boys, put the lynch rope down and let me try another one BANG…1400 fps. Ooookay, everybody stand real still while Jesse gets the horses!


    Naturally I mount my defense by questioning the accuracy of the chronograph and ask how he knows it’s correct or calibrated? It was a Velbran or something like that. Because I know it’s accurate, he says! Now another guy pulls out one of his “singles” loads and lets her go BANG…1130 fps. All eyes are back on me. Again someone (who used to be a friend) again asks what I’m loading. I tell them it’s my version of the Remington STS handicap load. I use an STS hull, Win 209 primer, Win WT12 wad, and 19.5grs of International Clays and according to the Hodgdon data 19.8grs should be 1200fps. In fact the manual says it takes 21.1grs to get up to 1255fps. Their lips say Oh but their eyes say liar. I also take note that none of them are trying their handicap loads on this machine.


    It gets better, the owner of the chronograph produces two new Estates 2 & ¾ dram 1oz 8s shells and says try these. I’m shooting an untouched 34in fixed full choke K-80 unsingle. I load one and BANG….1700 fps and the second was right with it. I quickly remind the mob that these are his “new” loads I did not load them, they slack off the rope a bit.


    I take the opportunity to declare the chronograph is not right and he yells out that he knew those Estate shells were way too hot. Oh come on do you believe a 2 & ¾ 1 oz factory load just did 1700fps? He says he does. He then tells me my loads would be considered illegal for a contest. I tell him I’m not convinced and I doubt that they are really that fast. I go home and pull 5 shells from the hopper and cut them down. The
    highest is 19.8grs and lowest is 19.5grs.


    Here’s where you come in. I shoot STS Light Handicap for registered handicap events but I could possibly shoot these at a smaller club event. So I’m curious would you go by the manufacturer’s data or someone’s chronograph? If this had been a registered shoot and someone questioned my shells I assume they would take a random sampling. Would they cut them down weighing and verifying the components? What happens next do they chronograph them or use manufacturer’s data? Should I back this load down? Anyone else shoot this or a similar load? Oh oh, got to run I see dust on the horizon and I think it’s the posse!


    Shoot well,

    Jim (AKA The Sundance Kid)
     
  2. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
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    1,042
    lordy...would it be possible to get 1700 fps without splitting the barrel? heh. My first guess would be a problem with the chrono. That or you've got a 5/16" inch crimp on your reloads. (i know...not bloody likely)
     
  3. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    I have chronographed many shotgun shells with both an Ohler 33 and a Pact Chrono. They are not really accurate for shotgun loads for several reasons. The shot "cloud" and muzzle blast both are factors that mitigate accuracy. Now with rifle or handgun projectiles, they are on the money.
     
  4. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Redding, California
    Jim.... I think you are completely safe in shooting your loads at a registered shoot. "IF" another shooter questioned your load and asked for a tear down shell check by an official, the chances of even having a scale available at a shoot to weigh the charge is very unlikely, and the chances that there is an accurate chronograph available are even slimmer. "IF" a scale were available, "AND" a reloading manual, listing "ALL" the variables in your chosen load was also available, the offical would probably just go by the weight of the payload of shot. In over 20 years of shooting registered trap, I have never seen anyone contest another shooters reloads, for any reason. Relax and just shoot them like they are......Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  5. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Yea ...1700 FPS. Not unless you were using about 50 grains of allient Steel Powder and one ounce of shot. The guy is doing something way wrong. Whatever it is it must be a common mistake as I witnesses almost the same demonstration one day. It had federal papers going 1350FPS. these were 2 3/4 dram 1OZ Of 8 1/2's and not International target loads. Jeff
     
  6. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Yea ...1700 FPS. Not unless you were using about 50 grains of allient Steel Powder and one ounce of shot. The guy is doing something way wrong. Whatever it is it must be a common mistake as I witnesses almost the same demonstration one day. It had federal papers going 1350FPS. these were 2 3/4 dram 1OZ Of 8 1/2's and not International target loads. Jeff
     
  7. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    If you see him again, try shooting with the barrel just one foot behind the chrony and shoot one foot above it. Should get you back in the ballgame. John
     
  8. revsublime

    revsublime TS Member

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    im still trying to imagine the chamber pressure a 1700 fps load would generate. 13-14000 psi?
     
  9. A23B

    A23B TS Member

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    Get closer to the chronograph and shoot as low on it as you are comfortable. I think you will see a big difference. Most 'cheap’ chronographs are not made for a cloud of shot from a shotgun
     
  10. Bawana

    Bawana TS Member

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    729
    I have a Oehler Chrono with 3 screens. I found that the Rem STS Light target loads are an av of 1185 and not 1150 like they say. I now have worked out a load that is within 8 fps of the factory load. I was at first a good 100 fps and while testing loads and bushing I got up to 1225 fps and then backed off. I load with a 9000g mec with a bushing #28 with 700x. I use claybusters wad for 1 oz of shot. CCI 209 primer. STS hulls. I have a Rottweil 72AAT trap gun.
     
  11. Jim e

    Jim e TS Member

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    May give false reading on a sunny day. Test on an overcast (cloudy) day and results will be more accurate.
     
  12. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    What horseshit.

    Your shell police guy better keep an eye out for the gents in the white coats with the butterfly nets.

    HM
     
  13. Tom Strunk

    Tom Strunk Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Payson, Arizona
    Jim Jim Jim -- Think back, did you crash your KTM lately and land on your head?

    I'm thinking you might have picked up your pot shooting shells by mistake. ( from your crash ) I'm sure they go at least 1700 fps from the looks of that afterburner out of your barrel.

    I'm taking the new gun to the Utah State Shoot next week, I will call you when I get back.

    Tom Strunk
     
  14. Old Doc

    Old Doc Member

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    If you use the Pro chrono in direct sunlight you will get numbers that are wild. Always set up in shade to get any meaniful numbers. Neil Winston shows a large PVC shade set up in an old post. I just find a tree or a building. If using one to set target speed make sure the trap house is shading the chronograph, or use something to shade it. D winter
     
  15. K-80 Jim

    K-80 Jim TS Member

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    Thanks, I thought you guys might enjoy hearing this one.

    Shoot well,

    Jim

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Shudda just "accidently" blasted his chronograph. Then tell him he might want to buy a better quality one.
     
  17. Texas Ton

    Texas Ton TS Member

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    Jim, funny as heck story.

    If they give you any more grief, have them watch you send samples off to Whites lab or Larry Nailon in OKC, whoever is wrong pays the tab on the test and shipping. Win/Win for you, you get yours tested and they get egg on their face.
     
  18. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Yeah ... so what exactly is this all about?
     
  19. K-80 Jim

    K-80 Jim TS Member

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    lumper,

    I think it's about people, pride, honor, and integrity. I been shooting for about 18 years here in the Southwest Ohio area and have never been embroiled in controversy. Never been accused of Bagging. I was raised by some of the best shooters and most honorable men in the sport. For example, I was taught that if a scorer "gave" you a target you waited until your next turn so not to disturb the shooter behind you, then stop the round and corrected him or her by having them removed it from your score. Playing fair is more important than winning.

    It's about people: On the day in question we were practicing from the 27 yard line and I was shooting very well and won both rounds. I mention this because I think it caused my opponent ( who's a better shooter than me)to want to believe I won because my shells were juiced up.

    It's about how it takes 10 ata boys to form a good reputation and 1 Oh crap erases all of the ata boys.

    It was just an interesting dynamic that I was instantly caught up in and how it played out. It's about how people who know you well and other that know of you are suddenly forced to make a judgment on your character.

    Shoot well,

    Jim
     
  20. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I shoot new shells and at a shoot at the Old Phoenix Club the guy next to me asked what the "Hell was I shooting" because he said "they sounded like a cannon" ... I tossed a shell over to him and told him to have it tested because they were factory new shells (Federals), he never said another word from that minute on and I tanned him good ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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