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This happen at the GRAND, tell me your take

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by 320090T, Aug 20, 2007.

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  1. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Having the scorer or anyone else initial the mistakes on the score sheet would add to the clutter and make interpetation in the score sheet annex harder. If there were 15 - 18 mistakes that would be a lot of extra marks. My question is why was there that many mistakes on the last day? As long as the scores ended up correct, I wouldn't worry about it. Why not shoot all 100 on the same bank? The backgrounds are the same, many clubs do it. It would be to the advantage of the shooter by not having to adjust to a new trap setting.
     
  2. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Another reason to know the rules. There is no requirement to initial changes. There is also no requirement to write "lost". Simplying making a circle over the "/" or "X" will suffice - per the rulebook any mark that does not clearly indicated "dead" will be considered lost. No harm in writing lost, but it's not required as long as there is a circle in the box.

    We also doubled up on a trap or two, primarily due to the heat. There was a backup, we were the last squad for the event, so we shot another 25 targets on the same trap. Got everyone out of the sun just a little sooner.

    Scott
     
  3. Joe Woods

    Joe Woods Well-Known Member

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    It was hot . 50 Grand employees didn't show up one day. Must have added to confusion.50!!!!!!!!!!
    Thats having a bad day.

    Joe Woods/Ontario
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    ...and not only that. the squad leader is not required to initial the scoresheet either, though she should.

    Neil
     
  5. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Why not shoot the whole Grand 100 per field? It's not like guys shooting on 4 traps at one end of the line are having an equal experience to the guys shooting on the other anyway. It takes about 40 minutes to shoot 100 per field. With 100 fields, you can shoot 500 squads in less than 3.5 hours.
     
  6. Clay Addict

    Clay Addict Member

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    100 per field is a good idea if you do not have the facility to provide a 2 or 4 house bank. However there is the capacity at Sparta to do a 4 house bank. Many back ups or delays were due to unusal heat issues. The Grand was during a record heat wave (the most days above 95 since 1952). (Saturday I thought I would need a jacket when I got up...it was in the 70's) The 4 house banks provide a break and time to enjoy and meet with your squad mates, take a little break, and see a different view. Not to mention the slight differences between houses (wind, back ground, setup, etc.)are an important part of the game. There is ample capacity at Sparta and as the future grows the additional 3 banks not used this year will help to keep the program shot in good light. I recall only one event this year that was shot so late that it may have hampered some shooters ability to see the bird.
    I had a great two weeks and look forward to next year already.

    Stopped by a range on my way home...heard about it from a local lady. We did not shoot there this year but will do so next....Rend Lake Shooting Complex. Very nice place and met some more nice people. About 1 hour from Sparta and we may try going there in the evenings next year.

    Sparta 2008 here we come.
     
  7. NintyT

    NintyT Member

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    JBrooks,

    Why don't we just shoot 20 per post and get it over with???? Or in the case of a 200 target event, we'll just do 40 per post and call it a day. Steve J
     
  8. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Steve,

    Why not just take a 20 minute break between rounds?

    It is just a monumental waste of time to traipse from field to field when there is no competitive equality to be attained. Further, everyone talks about growing the sport, but if we really grew the sport 25%, we don't have the field capacity to do that at most clubs if we are going to let fields sit idle.
     
  9. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    I think that they probably are shooting 4 trap banks to get it a little closer to how it used to be back int the 70's and before. You would shoot a trap and "traipse" down 3 or 4 traps to shoot your second, then 3 or 4 more for the third, then 3 or 4 more for the last 25. Too long ago to remember exactly how many traps were skipped but it was several. John
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    John- We used to shoot one field, skip the next two fields and shot every third field. Some squads moved East and others moved West. It was not at all unusual for a squad member to get lost and end up at the make up traps. We also had to get to the score board annex early to see what squad we had been assigned to shoot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Pat,

    If that was the way they did it then, then, by golly, that's the way we should do it now. What ever happened to tradition?
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    JBrooks- Traditions are ephemeral. The club where I began as a trap boy would not allow any "Gypsies or people with tattoos" on the grounds. It was a tradition.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    To add something different to this post. On Saturday at the Grand the squad before me shooting 16 yd singles had this happen. First 25, post 1 & 2 shot, post #3 stopped the shoot to complain the birds were to high. Line Ref. went down and lowered the birds, #3 then shot
    Being new to the sport I understood once the squad started shooting things could not change, but I guess I have stuff to learn.
     
  14. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Squad leader usually checks to see that all on the squad are satisfied with the targets thrown.

    If not, management resets with T bar or hoop.

    Any other way is an aberration. But I wouldn't care as long as the birds were legal. Things can happen to make for poorly thrown birds, and I don't believe you have to shoot junk just because the wind changed during a sub event.

    HM
     
  15. Joe Woods

    Joe Woods Well-Known Member

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    Back in the 70's at the Grand. What if you picked up the wrong gun and walked multible traps.


    Joe Woods/Ontario
     
  16. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    Picking up the wrong gun was more of a problem in the 50's when half the people were shooting a model 12.
     
  17. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

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    Pat, your memory is better than mine. I remembered moving several traps between sub events but could not remember how many. Those were some very good times indeed. I managed to not ever get lost.

    Chasing targets all day and chasing girls all night lol.

    Anyway, I do not know if that is why they use 4 traps now but I am guessing so.

    John
     
  18. guncase

    guncase TS Member

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    How many traps you "walked" mostly depended on the number of traps being used. I remember in the days of Vic Reinders at Waukesha, we shot one and walked 6,, to shoot the length of 28 traps. I would think that at the Grand now that it would save a lot of labor to shoot on two traps,,two X 25 then move. Paul
     
  19. RLC323

    RLC323 Member

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    bobdog, I think Neil has it right on this rule. Rule states: Should be checked, confirmed, and initialed. Keyword here is "should", mandatory initials in this rule would replace should with shall.

    My attorney taught me an expensive lesson in the difference between "should and shall" a few years ago.
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    bobdog, ric323 has it right. If it said "must" then an uninitialed scoresheet would be invalid and innocent shooters would be punished. That's why it says "should" and that's why I wrote

    "...and not only that. the squad leader is not required to initial the scoresheet either, though she should."

    since that is an exact restatement of the rule.

    I admit I didn't know about the text until it came up in an official complaint a couple of Decembers ago and I've been reading the rulebook for twenty years. Heck, even Zara didn't know it!

    Neil
     
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