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The ultimate fix for the handicapping system

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by short shucker, Jan 21, 2010.

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  1. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    To some shooters more yardage is needed in order to be competitive. Others think that smaller shot charges are needed because most clubs can't make the walks any further back. Besides the cost would be prohibitive.

    I'm in favor of the later, but with a twist.

    Keep the normal handicapping system as it is until the shooter reaches the 27 yrd line.

    If a 27 yrd shooter gets 2 honorary punches, or 1 honorary punch of 1 1/2 yds or more, he/she will be required to shoot 1 oz ATA legal loads until they get 1000 target review or receive more honorary punches. If said shooter still receives honorary punches, as described above, his shells would be further restricted to 7/8 oz legal shells. 7/8 oz being the greatest amount of restriction possible. He/she would be up for review every 1000 targets.

    This same type of handicapping is used the world wide in sports car racing to level the playing field. If one car has a decided advantage over the other they add weight until the car stops winning. This added weight is continually adjusted to keep the playing field equaled.

    This would be an easy fix for the handicapping index that would require zero modifications for the club grounds. The added exspense in classification would be very marginal at best.

    The honor system seems to work very well for shell conformity, so I see no reason for increased "policing".

    ss
     
  2. high 2

    high 2 Member

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    You hear the same complaints in skeet. Best thing to do is apply yourself and practice more, or shoot sporting clays where you can usually win with less than a perfcet score. Most of the top shooters no matter what the game, could end up winning given enough time with a beanie flip. They used to have an industry class that pretty much put all the "PROS" in a class by themselves. Almost all of the top shooters I know practice more in a month than I shoot in a year. How bad do you want it? Larry
     
  3. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    Boy, the dawg's 'gonna be all over this one...
     
  4. Doug Briggs

    Doug Briggs TS Member

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    Let's make the back fencers get on their knees, use the wrong shoulder, wear cardboard 3-D glasses, put their hats on backward, drink a fifth of whiskey, and use a 20 gauge, field grade 870.

    They would still kick my ass.
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Just put everybody on the 27 and give them a "Handicap" similar as in golf.

    Curt
     
  6. Rvator97

    Rvator97 TS Member

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    The system needs fixing because the best shooters win ????
     
  7. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    More whining from 2nd and 3rd rate shooters looking to win big!

    If you don't want to compete with the Big Dogs for the money...just play the Class and yardage that you are in! Or are you then going to bitch about the Sandbaggers?

    The difference between a Trap Shooter and a Puppy...eventually the Puppy stops whining!

    As mentioned before...get out and practice! Sunday only shooters are NOT competetive!
     
  8. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I must have gotten it right. There hasn't been a single intelligent post to dispute my idea.

    I would really love for someone to dispute why this wouldn't work. Y'all just think I'm trolling here, but this is a serious suggestion.

    The first letter of the ATA stands for Amateur.

    ss
     
  9. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again.

    You know what,I think they should blindfold the big dogs.

    Tell us what you want.

    So my answer to you (Sandbag) get on the 19 yard line,and you still will not beat the big dogs.

    So,quit your crying.

    Bo
     
  10. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    There was a suggestion a while back. Put everybody on the 27 and class them by their averages like 16's. Average figured on last 1,000 targets, low scores tossed out. Shoot against your class or go for all the marbles, your choice.

    No more moving the damn speakers, shoot with whomever you want, no more worry about yardage difference on squads and make shoot management easier.

    Don
     
  11. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    Shortshucker:

    First off I am sorry for the way I came off.

    This subject is on here every winter.

    I say if it ain't broke leave it alone.

    Breakem all

    Bo
     
  12. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Don,

    You know that'll never work. Way too many shooters couldn't stand to have a score in the low 60's, or far worse. Hell half of them can't even see a target from the fence let alone shoot at one. This would further reduce the ranks drawing less interest than what you have now.

    The ATA has even started using the 18yrd line trying to draw more shooters. I don't know when they did that.

    Way too many stand there like an ostrich with their head in the ground pretending that there is nothing wrong. I got news for you, the economy is taking a toll on everything and it's not going to get better anytime soon.

    Club registered shoots are lucky to have 6 full squads these days. These are clubs that 5 years ago would have 12-15 full squads at a registered shoot. The big shoots are still doing ok, but the small clubs are suffering greatly. It won't be long before some of these private run smaller clubs start ceasing operations.

    The funny thing about all of this is the amount of recreational/game shooters are growing. I was at one club a couple of months ago that had 40 shooters there for game night. The next week they couldn't draw enought shooters for 3 full squads at a registered shoot.

    Don, tell me the ATA isn't slowly dying. The best organizations are a living entity that evolves. Those that don't go extinct.

    Bocephas,

    No offence taken.

    ss
     
  13. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    ss

    Same in my area...no registered and plenty of pot shooters.

    Bo

    The system is "broke" and needs fixing or soon all registered shooting will be a thing of the past. It is close to that now!

    Mark Rounds
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    short shucker

    "I must have gotten it right. There hasn't been a single intelligent post to dispute my idea."

    I will dispute it I know many of you won't consider what I say intelligent but none the less. What you are suggesting is swapping the handicap yardage payout of more yardage for a qualifying or winning score for less lead. Pour more concrete on one field at every club and continue the yardage payout the way it is just to a longer back fence.

    One field and you write besides the cost would be prohibitive. I don't think so the only thing that is prohibitive in more concrete proposal is attitude.

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Bob,

    You are just a fine example of the forward thinkers that are entrenched in the ATA. Put the burden onto the already taxed clubs for improvements they can't possibly make instead of using the resources that are already available and virtually free.

    Most clubs ran out of ground when the 27 yrd line was introduced. Heck I even know a few that didn't have room for the 27.

    Quality 1 oz and 7/8 oz shells are readily available and classification would happen just like normal. Nothing really time consuming added.

    Yip Bob, you couldn't think outside the box if it was 2"x2"x2".

    ss
     
  16. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Dying NO. Down sizing YES. The ATA is not unlike many other businesses. You may never see the numbers we once had but that surely doesn't mean we are dead, just smaller. The last think we need is a bunch of shooters standing around trying to claim a dead body that doesn't exsist.

    Mr. Dennis if you think it's dead why do you keep kicking the body, it's attitudes like yours that are a cancer to the organization. You won't be satisfied until it's gone so you can say "I told you so". BUT that is not going to happen because to many of us won't let it happen.

    Don
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    short shucker I don't agree with your proposal and I said so. I did not however use disparaging remarks to describe what you proposed.

    You on the other hand think nothing of bringing personal attacks and demeaning comments in this discussion. I think you should stick to the issues. You made one of the issues the cost prohibitive. You also said MOST clubs I would say many but most?????

    You started this thread do you wish to discuss the issue? Or maybe you would rather just express your dislike for me instead. If it is a insult contest you want that is fine. It isn't however why I posted to this thread. Now you can be civil and discuss it or you continue on the line you have taken and we will see where it takes us. The choice is your choose well.

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    There are no All American points awarded at a two trap club with walkways extending only to 25 yds. in Timbuctoo Iowa. I am not likely to encounter Harlan, Kay or Ray there either!!
     
  19. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Man...all these complicated fixes to a simple system.

    The ULTIMATE fix to the system is so simple....

    Everybody shoots 100 birds from their currently assigned yardage. I'm on the 25, for example, and Leo...he's 27, so he shoots there, and all the 20 yarders shoot from 20. You still get your reductions after 1000 birds. And you still get a yard when you win, and automatic yardage for score (96 and better), just like now.....

    And then????

    After EVERYBODY is done shooting their 100 birds from their assigned yardage?

    WE DRAW THE FREAKING WINNER'S NAME OUT OF A GODDAMMED HAT.

    There. Problem solved. Now EVERYONE has an equal chance of beating Leo.

    Its a system Obama can embrace. Socialism at its finest. To make myself better I have to run you down.

    Now, if everyone would humor me....I believe all the disgruntled folks who constantly bitch about the "system" are low to mid yardage shooters (21 to 25 yards) with low (85 or lower averages).

    Please post your assigned yardage and current handicap average along with your solution to the "problem"....so we can see if you're really onto something, or if you just don't practice enough and / or are disgruntled.

    25 yards, 91.X something average. ish. There's mine.

    Its winter in alaska...I haven't shot a registered 'cap since October. But I will on Feb 6th at our pre-superbowl shoot.
     
  20. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Bob,

    Nothing personal meant by my remarks. I was just stating that kind of thinking has gotten the ATA nowhere and you were just a perfect example.

    BigDon,

    There is a famous business expression, "If you aren't growing, you are dying". "Downsizing" is business speak for we need to make some changes before we go out of business.

    ss
     
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