1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

The SCTP is saying goodbye to the Grand

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by roger8918, Oct 26, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. roger8918

    roger8918 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    697
    The SCTP is NOT saying goodbye to the Grand

    I just received this from Zack Snow of the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

    “The 2008 SCTP National Championships for Trap, Skeet and Sporting Clays will be held at the World Shooting & Recreational Complex in Sparta, IL, July 13th - 17th.”

    Is the SCTP cutting ties with the governing bodies? I know that in PA there is talk about moving away from the State Shoot. My question is, if the SCTP is moving away from the Grand and the SCTP is moving away from the State Shoots, does the SCTP really need the ATA? Has the ATA, by trying to limit the days the SCTP shot at the Grand, shot itself in the foot?
     
  2. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,354
    Location:
    Indiana
    I understand it to say they can shoot everyday if they want but their 200 target event has been condensed to one day. As a parent, I would support that and as a shooter, I see motel rooms available that were not before.
     
  3. rmngtngrl

    rmngtngrl TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    505
    The SCTP was started to help infuse the ATA (or the NSSA or the SCA)with new members, and to introduce kids to the world of shooting, in order to keep this sport going. however it soon became apparent that a good many teams were not encouraging their members to shoot at ATA shoots due to target requirements and classification issues. This to me went against the whole grain of what SCTP started out to do, regardless that it was not the ATA, NSSA nor the SCA that started this program.

    All along everyone has fussed about having to be memebers of the ATA(or the other NGBs), but I ask you this, how do you expect to conduct shoots, keep records, and all the other whohaw that goes with running any organization with out having to pay dues of some sort? Answer is you can't. For SCTP memebers the fees for joining the ATA is $12.00 a year. big wow!! That fee (and any fee that your state may require for membership ( I happen to be in Calif and our fees are $7.00 per year) is certainly less than the cost of playing an organized sport such as football or baseball, which only run for a short season, the ATA fee covers all year.

    Now I know that it also cost the kids to shoot at shoots but most, if not all ranges offer 1/2 price targets to junior shooters.

    So if the SCTP does "move away" from the ATA and the other NGB, who is going to keep all the records and who is going to provide the staff and backing it takes to make up this organization, the kids will by being members of the SCTP and having to also pay dues to that, I know that this year the fees have gone up for the team registration and I feel that this is the tip of the iceberg.

    As a coach who is also a shooter, a parent of a SCTP shooter and have been around this sport all my life, I would encourage the SCTP to stay with the ATA(or other NGBs) for the mere fact that the kids are only kids for a short while and hopefully they will like shooting enough to keep it up once they are no longer able to shoot SCTP, and what better way to do that than by shooting in the occasional weekend ATA shoot and know that they have the support of their coach to do so. I don't think the ATA is trying to get rid of the kids that would be like shooting themselves in the foot for the future of shooting,nor are the other shooters unhappy with the kids shooting despite a few grumbly grouches who wouldn't be happy with anything.,

    Having the shoot early, while for us really bites due to the fact that it comes right on the heels of our state shoot and right at the same time as our county fair( most kids on this team also are involved in 4-H), is that it is letting the kids have the whole complex to themselves. I know that there are those that are saying "what about the vendors"...the vendors know who spends money...they will be there.....and if the kids that want to shoot the Grand can come back, then good, but in realality how many of the kids stayed and shot the Grand last year??? It looks like the SCTP will have 4 days of shooting to themselves and that seems great.

    So keep your teams shooting, keep encouraging ATA, NSSA, or SCA, particiapation all year the future of this sport depends on it.

    Kym Hughes

    1 of the Santa Maria SCTP coaches
     
  4. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    6,625
    Location:
    Michigan
    Nice post Kym.

    Don
     
  5. vanman

    vanman TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    67
    It doesn't sound like the SCTP is cutting ties with NGB. It sounds like there making room to shoot all of the disciplines in a reasonable amount of time
    ( 4 days ) and if thats the case? it sounds great to me.
    There should be designated dates, times and places for SCTP without being pushed or hurried by ATA registered or state championships & nationals.

    Kym, I agree and you have the same concerns that a lot of coaches have. I will take a guess and say that it's possible the state association(s) ( each state ) will become more involved with keeping the records for SCTP and report to the NGB.

    Van
     
  6. shoottilithurts

    shoottilithurts Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    148
    does this make it easier to have the grand at a later and hopefully cooler time?
     
  7. blooper

    blooper TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    139
    is the ATA aware of this? ....is the Trap Championship ATA registered?...has the SCTP applied for a ATA registered date through the Illinois trapshooting assoc? .... the last i read on this forum the plan was to have one day just for the SCTP before prelim week of the Grand
     
  8. bcnu

    bcnu Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,197
    No, because they still depend upon school age workers. And the scpt, as was mentioned in another thread, are not kept from shooting any of the Grand. John
     
  9. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    791
    A change to another date earlier than the Grand could be very detrimental to the SCTP program. A lot families and coaches combine the trip to the Grand with the SCTP program. The ATA has been neglectful in setting up a continous program. But this year they will dedicate a day for just the SCTP program. As I understand it will be a 200 bird event. No other shooting will be done. This will allow total focus on the SCTP program and the youths that participate. A large percentage of the juniors only participate in the SCTP portion. But many will stay over and shoot at least a portion of the Grand program. It also allows for coaches to travel a single trip. Many of us that have been involved with the program from it's inception are dedicated shooters and like to be able to shoot the Grand program.

    A change to an earlier date will restrict many. It will be far to costly to make 2 trips to Sparta, plus it will interfere with other scheduled shoots. I hope the ATA and NSSF can get together and put the program, as currently planned, a day in front of the Grand prelim days. On a futher note I personally would like to see the SCTP program on Wednesday and the Grand preliminary days start on Thursday as it did for many years. Every added day adds to the costs, not to mention time constraints. Just my 2 cents worth. - Jim Elliott
     
  10. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,301
    tomk2

    When I was on the Michigan Trapshooting Association BoD, we tried to hire as many youngsters, and particularly youth groups, as possible. Although there are a number of home schooled young people able to work during the school year, when enough youngsters weren't available, particularly at shoots such as the Great Lakes Grand, we had to hire workers from the temp agencies. This raised our labor costs approximately 40%.
     
  11. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,301
    Glad to hear you'll be able to make the GLG again, so I can buy you that cup of coffee.

    :)
     
  12. roger8918

    roger8918 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    697
    Jim, the way I understand it is that the SCTP is totally bypassing the Grand in favor of a separate SCTP championship and that shoot will include championships for all of the SCTP disciplines… Trap, Skeet and Sporting Clays.

    As was the case with my team, I think the problem that the SCTP was facing was, many of the SCTP shooters participate in more then one discipline and combining the championships together should allow the young people to compete in more then one championship during that week long event.

    I personally think that combining the championships and having them as a separate event is a great idea. The SCTP will not have to deal with all of the headaches that come with trying to coordinate the SCTP championship within the governing body’s event.

    My original post was intended to try and make the status quo crowd think about how easy it would be for the SCTP to cut ties with the governing body’s and do the whole thing themselves. Most of what I hear on this site is a bunch of belly aching about what the kids are getting, how privileged they are or how they acted at some shoot or another. Many of these young people will still go to the Grand but now they will be competing with everyone instead of just in the SCTP part.

    Look out boys as these young guns are good and now they will be gunning for your trophies instead of their own at the Grand.
     
  13. blooper

    blooper TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    139
    Roger I also think that the NSSF/SCTP may be wondering why the targets need to be (ATA) registered, they don't classify the kids according to abilty, its according to their age and number of years in the SCTP program ....The SCTP did away with target requirements (for their Expierienced Division) a couple of years ago......it seems that, if in fact, that the coaches letter from the NSSF/SCTP (of the SCTP championships change of date to July) had to be forwarded to a member of the ATA Ex. Comm. that little of this was known about by the ATA in advance......AND it seems that this decision was made with little reguard to other ATA State or any other ATA events in that time slot...The decision by the NSSF/SCTP to move their trap chapionship away from the (prelim) Grand had to be in cooperation with the WSRC in Sparta which I see as a slap in the face of the ATA.....I don't see the SCTP kids/ parents/coaches supporting the August(Grand) event at Sparta in any numbers at all now
     
  14. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    482
    Roger, the way your original post is titled and written do not harmonize with your last post.

    I believe the SCTP is great for shooting because they help convince Mothers that guns are not evil. SCTP is good for youth for a long list of reasons. I salute the many who support organized youth shooting.

    The subject of combining registered trap and SCTP is completely separate. SCTP is better off without another governing body such as the ATA. If there is a registered shoot, any ATA member can compete. The ATA by-laws do not allow a shoot to be held that is only for a segment of the membership. The ATA has a set of classification rules, there are not separate rules for SCTP. I could go on and on with this but having shot behind youth squads before, I will say that many of them would be better off at the practice trap, and many of them need to lose their parents. These soccer moms and dads want to relive each shot and they do it on the field preventing the following squad from even getting to their guns. bottom line - I won't miss them
     
  15. roger8918

    roger8918 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    697
    HaveGunWillTravel, I realize that there are many good old boys that "won't miss them" but do you think that the ATA will miss them?
     
  16. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    482
    roger8918,
    Having participated in classification at the state shoot level, I saw lots of kids who had never registered a target. Putting them in penalty really sucks. And like I said before, you know they cannot shoot straight. Does the ATA need the money - yes, are the state orgs fair to these kids with classification penalties - I don't think so.

    Half price targets are losers so the ATA will not miss shelling out that subsidy. Some of these kids are very very accomplished shooters and are in the hunt for the AA Team. They will continue to shoot ATA events. Others will shoot some ATA just for practice. ATA is cheaper than Clays. So no, overall, I don't think the ATA will miss them at all.
     
  17. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,209
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    I think it is a good move for the SCTP. The only problem they caused was their shear numbers that overwhelmed the management of the Grand. They all can still shoot the Grand too if they please and the ATA, the Skeeters and the Sporties need to encourage them.

    There's another factor in here too, though. Do the ammunition companies help as much as they should? This is not a critisism of them just a personal question about their participation.
     
  18. rmngtngrl

    rmngtngrl TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    505
    It was posted above that all the SCTP tournaments to date have been registered. I don't know about other parts of the country but here in California the only SCTP shoots that have been registered have been the State shoot and a shoot that was held by Santa Ynez...all the other SCTP tournamnets are not registered with the ATA...so there for no scores are being recorded and no averages are being establsihed (which bring up a whole 'nother set of problems)....I think this is wrong...but that is only MY personal opinion.

    I agree that it would be easy to have the SCTP shoot at the same time as the Grand but from what I heard the main problem was rooms to be had....

    I think that the ATA and the SCTP are trying to work out something to make everyone happy and we all know how that goes....

    As a coach..and a shooter it would be impossible for me to go back to Sparta with a team(s) and then come back later to shoot for myself...that is the only problem I see for this arrangement...and I know that for a good many kids that would be the same problem but then again I know so many kids that travel from shoot to shoot all year long so they will make both shoots.

    Kym Hughes
     
  19. roger8918

    roger8918 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    697
    Barry, Federal and Winchester both made discounted shells available to SCTP teams this year. Federals were $38/flat and Winchester had a buy 3 get 1 free deal.
     
  20. rmngtngrl

    rmngtngrl TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    505
    There is nothing in the SCTP handbook that states that a SCTP shoot must be registered, however it does state that for any member to shoot in a SCTP event they first must be a member in good standing with their State and National Orgainzation. This would mean ( at least to me that all kids who are shooting all these tournaments should be paid up members of the ATA and the State before they can shoot....not at the state shoot....

    I am for registering the SCTP targets for a reason....that reason would be that the kids are going and shooting 800+ rounds in a competion format and these targets are not being counted in there yearly average. Some kids come to a big shoot and still expect to be classified in the lower classes, and get a little upset when asked what they shot in the last few SCTP shoots...that is why I am for registering the targets....

    There are other reasons too but I will not go into those right now...however they involve the daily fees that the kids would have to pay for a registered shoot...again 5 dollars is not that much and the services that get paid for with that money are numerous...

    Kym
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

cgsta junior program