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The Leo Harrision Technique

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by gunner x, Sep 21, 2008.

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  1. gunner x

    gunner x TS Member

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    I believe Leo teaches shooters to look under the muzzle and or look back for the
    target pior to making the call. This also seems to be his style or technique
    and certainly with great success. Unorthodox, contradictory to what other
    instructors recommend. Why is it successful to him and maybe a handfull of others yet rarely if ever mentioned and seems to frowned upon.

    Thanks for Sharing, Gunnerx
     
  2. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    I have been loking to the middle of the house, right at the edge, ever sense he suggested I try it. I couldn't believe how slow it made most of the target presentations appear. Made the game a lot easier.
     
  3. mette56

    mette56 Well-Known Member

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    JBROOKS,

    Explain "look in to the middle of the house...right at the edge" please. Seems like if you look into the middle that would be the side of the trap house. Which edge, the back edge or front edge? And where is the front end of your gun pointing? Where you are looking vs. where the front end is pointing? Does this apply to all posts?

    Thanks,

    milt
     
  4. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    It's actually not a rare technique...just unknown to a lot of neophytes. Kay Ohye, for example, has always said that this is how two-eyed shooters should shoot. He only advocates looking above the gun if you're one-eyed. Two-eyed shooters _should_ look under and through the gun.


    Lately, there have been a lot of instructors seemingly advocating one-eyed look-points for all shooters. But if an instructor is knowledgeable and takes the effort to get acquainted with each student's vision issues, he will note that there is more than one way to do it.


    Looking under the gun is a champion's technique that is apparently being forgotten, and is completely unknown to a lot of beginners. People will try to dismiss this by saying a lot of different things, such as, the target looks like a streak, you'll shoot at the streak, etc. Ohye and others never said anyone should "shoot" at a streak; only that you should identify the target's angle as soon as possible, by looking under and through the gun. There is absolutely _nothing_ in trapshooting fundamentals that says your brain is "not allowed" to know of a target's presence until it can be clearly seen. You can, and should, be looking at it, even if it cannot be clearly seen yet. It will eventually be come into clear view, and you will be very close to being in position to make the shot by that time.


    I repeat, anyone who tells you NOT to look for a target before the distance where it can be clearly seen, is not telling you the whole story. This is not a one-way-only subject. Be wary of those who tell you it is. Shooters who identify the angle as soon as the bird exits the house, even if they can't focus and shoot it yet, are a leg up on those who don't even look for it until it's at their "sharp clear vision distance."


    If your brain does not even become aware of the target until it's at your personal "clear vision distance," you're giving up a lot of distance, time, and targets to the other shooters out there who've mastered looking under the gun. There are good shooters who look above the gun, but a lot of them point their guns _very_ low on the house. They understand the value of identifying the angle quickly.


    Test yourself. When you first become aware of the target, is it seen against the sky, the trees...or the GRASS? You should strive for the grass in front of the trap. Look through and under your gun. This is what binocular vision is for in trapshooting, the only thing, really. Once the target gets up into your kill zone, your master eye takes over, and the other eye plays no further role.


    Kay Ohye teaches this: the advantage of two-eyed shooting is while the target is still down against the grass, while it's still under the gun. Once it gets above the gun, you might as well be one-eyed. If you're a two-eyed shooter and you AREN'T looking for the target UNDER the gun, you're losing the advantages of being two-eyed, and might as well be shooting one-eyed.


    If this information is news to you, you need to question the sources of your information up to this point, and seek out more, because you're not getting the full story. Every club has one "old" 25 yard shooter who says looking under the gun causes shooting at the streak. If this is the type of person you're getting your information from, prepare to never go any farther than him.
     
  5. Andy Ott

    Andy Ott Guest

    Frank Little explains this method in his 16 yrd tape and book so anyone can understand it,the whole idea is to cut gun movement to a minimum,not creat any blind spots and to see the target the instant it leaves the house.
     
  6. Allen-MX8

    Allen-MX8 Member

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    I have been looking under the muzzle for several years now and glad to know that is what Leo teaches!

    I shoot with both eyes open even though I am right eye dominent.

    My scores are not the highest, but I sure do enjoy shooting and plan to be at the Missouri Fall Handicap this year.

    Thanks and I hope all shoot well!

    Senior Vet Allen
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Banned User Banned

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    "This is not a one-way-only subject. Be wary of those who tell you it is."

    Looking under the gun at the traphouse does not work for everyone either.

    Use what works for you.
     
  8. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    For singles, my hold point is along the front edge of the house roof. On 1&5 the bead is right on the corners. On 2 & 4 it is usually right over the back corner, varies a bit by house width, but it has to be wide enough that a target can't come out under the bead. On 3 I hold about 2 feet to the right of center, again so the target can't come out under the bead. For HC from the 27 I am holding a little higher to get to the target sooner.

    After mounting and aligning the gun looking down the rib, I then look right to the middle of the house along the top front edge where the target first appears. After my eye settles there, I call for the target. I don't see a streak, I just see the target. As I follow the target with my eye, I raise/move the gun to get the bead ahead of the target path. Anything less than an acute quarter angle looks like it is slow motion.

    Since I have been doing this, my average has been right around 98.
     
  9. trapwife

    trapwife Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    At the very beginning of each of Leo's clinics it is established that everything he "teaches" is a suggestion. He goes on to explain that there is no exact one way to be successful at trapshooting. Every shooter has to develop his/her own style. He offers ideas that can be accepted or rejected by each individual shooter. Gunnerx, you didn't sign your post, but if you are who I think you are, you took Leo's class. If you need to talk to him about any points raised during the clinic or even things that did not come up in class, feel free to call. Home phone 573-985-8237 or cell 573-795-6992, he would be glad to talk things over with you.
     
  10. prairieviper

    prairieviper Active Member

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    I would reiterate trapwife's remarks that Leo offers suggestions and solutions to help the shooter and makes it clear that there is no one way to be a successful trapshooter. I had the extreme pleasure of attending a session on doubles with Leo this past July and I can say that for me, it was an outstanding experience and I came away feeling that I had gotten a bargain with what I was able to learn and the great time that I had.
     
  11. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    It's also not really fair to discuss what is being taught in clinics either online or with everyone at the trap club, IMO. These guys make their living teaching clinics.

    Also, the second-hand information that you get (or give) may have been just for you and your style, or maybe it gets twisted just a little by the storyteller. Then when it doesn't work for the listener, it may unjustly lower his/her opninion of the clinic's efficacy.

    Know-whud-I-mean, Green?
     
  12. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    For the first time recurvy, I take exception to your comment "It is not fair-------"! Although I agree the info may be mis-interpreted, I will continue to help people if I can with what I learned from clinics that I have taken-Hoppe and Kiner in my case! Sorry if you think wrong! I just don't agree with you! Tom Rhoads
     
  13. gunner x

    gunner x TS Member

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    Hey Buzz,
    I have a private message for you.

    Drop the first three xxx's-------------xxxgunnerx11@aol.com------------

    Thanks for Sharing,

    Gunnerx
     
  14. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    If I try to look under or through the gun I see 2 guns and don't pick up the target leaving the house. I have found that for me looking into the general area where the target will go works for me. Even though i am looking slightly above and along side the gun I pick up the target with my peripheral vision as soon as it leaves the house. I have cataracts and astigmatism in both eyes and perhaps that is why I can't look under the gun but it just does not work for me. JRM
     
  15. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Rhoads, like I said, IMO (in my opinion).

    If you built a widget or developed an idea that benefitted others to the point that they were willing to pay for it, and you turned that into widget or idea into your mode of making a living, would you really want one of your customers to go out and start making your widget (or dissemating your idea) and giving it away for free? why would anyone else want to pay for it, then?

    If you ask for permission to disseminate information that someone "sells" to you, and are granted that permission, then that is all hunky-dory. If Leo/Frank did such a great job helping you (I'm sure that they did), and you like them, wouldn't you ask them out of respect?

    But have you ever thought about asking your protoges to give Frank or Phil a call instead? That way, they get the chance to talk with, and possibly meet, the clinician. It's mutually beneficial for both the student and the clinician, as the clinician might have the chance to sustain his living. You know, they don't make a whole lotta money...

    I have referred several people back to Phil, Leo, and Harlan when I was asked. But that's the way I do things.
     
  16. prairieviper

    prairieviper Active Member

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    I would reiterate trapwife's remarks that Leo offers suggestions and solutions to help the shooter and makes it clear that there is no one way to be a successful trapshooter. I had the extreme pleasure of attending a session on doubles with Leo this past July and I can say that for me, it was an outstanding experience and I came away feeling that I had gotten a bargain with what I was able to learn and the great time that I had.
     
  17. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    It's also not really fair to discuss what is being taught in clinics either online or with everyone at the trap club, IMO. These guys make their living teaching clinics.

    Also, the second-hand information that you get (or give) may have been just for you and your style, or maybe it gets twisted just a little by the storyteller. Then when it doesn't work for the listener, it may unjustly lower his/her opninion of the clinic's efficacy.

    Know-whud-I-mean, Green?
     
  18. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    2,215
    For the first time recurvy, I take exception to your comment "It is not fair-------"! Although I agree the info may be mis-interpreted, I will continue to help people if I can with what I learned from clinics that I have taken-Hoppe and Kiner in my case! Sorry if you think wrong! I just don't agree with you! Tom Rhoads
     
  19. gunner x

    gunner x TS Member

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    Hey Buzz,
    I have a private message for you.

    Drop the first three xxx's-------------xxxgunnerx11@aol.com------------

    Thanks for Sharing,

    Gunnerx
     
  20. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    If I try to look under or through the gun I see 2 guns and don't pick up the target leaving the house. I have found that for me looking into the general area where the target will go works for me. Even though i am looking slightly above and along side the gun I pick up the target with my peripheral vision as soon as it leaves the house. I have cataracts and astigmatism in both eyes and perhaps that is why I can't look under the gun but it just does not work for me. JRM
     
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