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The Grand and the ATA Railroad

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by thebirdislost, Aug 15, 2010.

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  1. thebirdislost

    thebirdislost TS Member

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    Well, we just returned from the Grand. For me, it was my 8th Grand; for Mark is was his 23rd. Attending the Grand every year is something that we both look forward to every year. This was the1st year that we did not come home saying that we can’t wait until next year.

    For the first time ever, the shooting was not enjoyable. We understand that nothing can be done about the heat, heck every place has a heat wave now and then. We understand that sometimes you are going to have cross calls and that the banks may back up from time to time. However, we shot 1200 targets each from Sunday to Saturday, only once did we make it through an event without a trap and/or voice call breaking down and having to walk off the line and wait. That is extremely frustrating to be at the Grand American, paying top dollar to shoot for the equipment to fail on every occasion. I am hoping that this was just bad luck on our part and that this was not everyone’s experience.

    BUT, that wasn’t even our biggest issue. Watching the railroad process of the ATA first hand was both embarrassing and disappointing.

    Bob Glatz had made some recommendations to the EC regarding some changes that would make the ATA run more efficiently and profitably. These recommendations were made when he helped Frank Rively get up to speed on the financial situation of the ATA. Apparently, these recommendations hit a real nerve with the EC, and the railroading began.

    I don’t know about everyone else, but I believe that no one is perfect and that each of us have things that we could improve on both personally and professionally. If someone comes to me and says respectfully, “Hey, here are some things that may help better yourself or your organization, and here are the supporting documents where I found this information.” I am going to at least sit down and examine their findings, not railroad them and/or put duct tape on there mouth.

    So, we went to attend the annual meeting. There were questions that we deserved to have answered. We care about what happens to the ATA and are concerned by the recent events. At the time the meeting started, we were not aware that Frank had been terminated from the ATA. However, Gary Sherrod slipped a comment in, almost under his breath, that Frank had been relieved of his duties. It was said so quickly and quietly that some people in the room even missed the comment at all. We were in absolute shock! From what we see, Here is a person that is truly looking at the betterment of the ATA. He gave up a good portion of life as he knew it, (Along with Patty) because he was that passionate about the ATA. What happens, he tries to fix things or at least bring them to everyones attention and gets kicked in the teeth again and again and again.

    So, during a recess, Mark went to find our delegate as members are not allowed to speak during the annual meeting. Mark asked the delegate to specifically ask the question as to why Frank was terminated and what the plans were. Mark and the delegate had a brief conversation and the delegate said, we will see. So back in the meeting we went and waited and waited. No questions were ever asked.

    However, a delegate from California, I do not know his name, stood up and spoke about looking at the complaint process stating that he thought that it should be reevaluated to eliminate conflict of interests that may exist in the process. He made some valid points. The president looked at him and said something along the lines of, “What, you have been a delegate for 2 months and you already think that you know everything and can change things?” Seriously, I would have looked at him and said you have been President for 11 months and how does that make you God? Railroaded again. I took it as the EC’s way of stating to the delegates that this was not to be voted on. So, no one said another word.

    So, then there was the argument about the tournament director. The EC basically said “Because we said so”. I didn’t like it when my mom said that either.

    Then the meeting ended.

    Mark walked up to our delegate, shook his hand, and thanked him for NOT representing the shooters he should be. The delegate then said, well, I will explain everything to you next week. Next week??? Next week, where? Basically, that says to us that the delegates were instructed that they were to not ask any questions regarding the topic. Have the delegates read the by-laws?? They are the bosses, not the EC. They vote the EC in and can reverse and question any decision that the EC makes. That is how it is supposed to work.

    We am not sure what we can do. But, we will be reading, writing letters, screaming from the rooftops and taking any action that we can find to get these questions/issues resolved.
     
  2. thebirdislost

    thebirdislost TS Member

    Joined:
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    Oops..I forgot to sign my post.

    A concerned Trapshooter,
    Robyn Bird
     
  3. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    I shot terribly but had a great time. Controversy's not going to ruin my shooting fun. I go to shoot and be with the best friends that I have ever had in my life.
     
  4. zimmie

    zimmie Active Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    thebirdislost,
    maybe everybody should not pay dues and daily fees till we get this fixed, after so long something would get done or the ata would.
    Bob Zimmerman
     
  5. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

    Joined:
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    Robyn, good luck and please continue to fight the good fight. Here in FL our delegate wouldn't even return an email except to pass it off to someone else(even when the ATA front office directed me to him) when I had questions about the application of an "R" code. He's worthless. JRM
     
  6. matttrapn

    matttrapn Active Member

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    Thank you Robyn, good post.

    I dont know enought to really dig into this, seems thats the way those in-charge wish it to be?

    A good friend who attended the meeting, and has been around our sport over 30+ years, told me BIG part of the issue is the out-going Pres. gun.....

    I was taken back with that to say the least. Our ATA has been running in the RED the past four years (or more). To the tune of around -$250,000.00. Bruce Reed's "out-going gun gift" was stated somewhere on here at $16,500.00. Look,, I'm not exact, but in the area of 6.5% of the $250,000.00. Where the hell is the other 93.5%?

    I'm not on a witch-hunt, and DONT wish to see one!!!! But we should have the right to know what has been going on, and what is going to be done to turn this ship.

    Thank you,

    Matt Nicol
     
  7. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    Thebirdislost Robyn Byrd I also mailed some suggested rule changes that Pat Ireland said to write to our Ohio State Delegate, I was at the meeting seated 2 seats from him, Our Delagate Dennis Filo, I asked him about my letter, he said I gave it to my BOSS, Boss hell, you are our OHIO delagate.

    In the meeting the Pres. Gary Sherrod stated only part of the rule change I or someone suggested was voted on and lost by6 a vote 52-2, hell there was not even discussion or vote on it.

    It is almost time for another shooting organization if this is nthe process.

    This is " GOOD OLE BOYS ORGANIZATION " and they want their $16,500 gun.

    I suggested on another posting to NEIL WINSTON and all past Presidents to sell those guns and donate the money back to the ATA.

    The Frank Rively dismissal was a stupid move on the ATA EC and BOD part, he was made aware of financial problems and discrepencies and presented them to the EC only to be PISSED ON AND BE LITTLED, SHOT DOWN IN FLAMES.

    I only have one last effort to get this corrected and am going to ask the IRS to come in and audit the books and check on the 501(c3) operations.

    Our ATA Comptroller surely must be worried as this is her responsibility along with the TREASURER, that signs the checks.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
    Life Member
     
  8. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    If there in the red no $16,000 shotgun. Ata credit cards must have limited use.
     
  9. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Longshit you are such a worthless whatever. You think the IRS is going to listen to you and your fabricated story. Are you even aware that the ATA had an outside firm go over and audit there numbers and tell them they are not in violation. That firm would now be on the hook if there are errors. But no you know more and you want to bring down the IRS on our (not yours) shooting organization. If you do this and if I had the power I would BAN you for life.

    You are just a sorry sick individual. This tops your calling the Health Dept. on a small club.

    Don
     
  10. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The ATA/EC calls the shots and don't like anyone who questions that ... Thats why the Grand moved to Sparta, Illinois because they said so ... There should be some big changes next year starting with the BOD and then the EC ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  11. The Rock

    The Rock Active Member

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    You know what makes me mad so mad I could stomp bunnies?

    You people forget the equipment is in use all year not just at the Grand. We permit (correct word?) the state of IL to use our traps and activators all year round. Things wear out a wee tad sooner if you use it everyday and not just once or twice a year.

    We pay $3.00 per event per shooter to shoot with our equipment. They don't pay us crap or replace a damn thing when they are down or wearing them out.

    As far as I can tell it is like renting a car once a year that you put the motor in then pay for gas for every one to drive plus make repairs and keep tires and oil changes up when you are not renting it. Sounds like a good deal to me.

    WAKE UP AMERICA ! PITTS OFF. (and we all know Earl tells it like it is).

    Rock

    Jim
     
  12. zinger

    zinger Member

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    Good luck Robyn! Those speakers on the line looked like they were run over by a truck! There were more smashed and just hanging on the stands than there were good ones. Nice job there IDNR for taking such good care of our equipment! Oh, and I see there still isn't a ladies bathroom anywhere remotely close to the grandstand area. It's a good thing we don't have to pee nearly as much as the men, as there are two bathrooms right there next to the beer tent..lol

    And to Don..quote: "Are you even aware that the ATA had an outside firm go over and audit there numbers and tell them they are not in violation." My question to you is, are you even aware that it could be possible that the ATA might have gone through a number of outside firms to get the numbers they wanted?

    We heard so many bullshit stories this past week regarding Frank and the meeting that it was quite entertaining. I just want the truth, and nothing but the truth!...think that will ever happen?
     
  13. Shotgun5

    Shotgun5 Member

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    I didn't think the ATA was in the RED till they moved to Ill. They should have stayed in Ohio were they belong. As a member of the ATA since 1977, i don't remember getting a card in the mail asking me to vote on a new location!! But as a member we should of had that right!!!! And they were offered land in Ohio!!!
     
  14. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone here know Longshot personally?

    You make a lot of statements about things you don't understand at all. I note this especially applies in matters related to financial and accounting issues. You really need to slow down. Complaining to the IRS about something will help in what way?

    There is also a huge misunderstanding here regarding exactly what an audit of the financial astatements entails. It certainly does not mean that the CPA's examined the expense policies and stated there were "no violations." I'm sure there has been enough of a stink raised here to put some people on edge, and if there were problems with accountable plan reimbursements, they should be straightened out, at least going forward. Give them a chance.
     
  15. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    Is Dr. Longshot really a doctor or a want a be.
     
  16. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    There are more laws on the books reguarding business than you can ever know. If the IRS is involved and they just might be you can bet you P gun they will find something in the red or not up to par. This will surly cost the ATA big time. It's to late now but it could have been avoided. What was it they said during WWII "loose lips sink ships" BernieK
     
  17. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    Great work, Robyn! At least someone is awake and asking questions.

    I don't know if anyone has done anything wrong BUT sunlight is a great disinfectant and the light of day should shine through everything the EC does. Why the secrecy? Is there something to hide? Silence and secrecy only raise questions and suspicions about improprieties.

    However, things will not change because there are too many people like Barry C. Roach who "just want to shoot" and don't really care what those in charge are doing. This is not a criticism of Barry but with so many people having similar attitudes, nothing will change and that is what "they" count on!
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Read the section on voting in the By-Laws. As a matter of fact read all the By-Laws you might get an education.

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    870....Regretfully....yes


    SM Snyder....No to your first question, a wannabe yes....





    Regards.....Gerald
     
  20. gridlock

    gridlock Member

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    smsnyder,
    Dr.Longsquat is not a doctor. He is however a first rate "Dimwit"
    Big Don is right on with his comments.
     
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