1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

The ATA You Do The Math

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by stokinpls, Nov 29, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    6,479
    No punches unless you win.
     
  2. Paul in Mn

    Paul in Mn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    75
    That's one reason why I don't play options. Apparently many others have also figured it out.

    Phil Kiner has some great ideas but so far they have fallen on deaf ears.

    Handicap for many is just expensive registered practice under the current rules.
     
  3. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,012
    And as long as a shooter can't shoot "targets only" you will continue to contribute to them and no one or at least not enough people involved in tunning the ATA want to take on solving the problem (most don't see one) because it's hard to fair --- when there was a continuing influx of new shooter's it wasn't detrimental to trap to lose most of them after a year or so of frustration but with the number of new shooter's dropping can the ATA afford to chase them away with prorams written toward one small segment of the shooters.

    I enjoy playing poker but I don't care to play with real money against Doyle Brunson
     
  4. chipking

    chipking TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,761
    It's actually very simple. When you get to the window to pay for your shoot they will say "playing any options?" and you say "NO" then the will say "playing the the Lewis?" and again you say "NO". I go to a Trap shoot to do just that SHOOT. If I feel the need to gamble I will go to a place to gamble. The truth is that the majority of the folks that play every option available would be money ahead if they started the shoot by taking a 20 out of their wallet and flushing it down the toilet.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  5. BILL GRILL

    BILL GRILL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Messages:
    3,764
    I shoot targets only at all the shoots I go to, don't even play the louie. I shoot because I enjoy it. If I wanted to make money I would go to work not to a shoot. Shooting is recreation not a job. I don't think it any more expensive than other hobbies. If it is so be it I still enjoy it. Bill
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,223
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    B.G., good assessment of how things truly are today!

    In the past, we drew our numbers mainly from hunters wanting to hone their field skills. That group has dwindled drastically nationwide and has hurt our recruitment source dramatically! More than likely the reason our current crop of leadership can't see the trees for the forest is most were never hunters either and can't identify with that lost source. Most all our leadership comes to us through a popularity contest held at our state shoots annually. It's only natural for the max yardage shooters in leadership roles to maintain the status quo. I feel they miss the main perception outsiders have once they venture into our sport. The rules direct all shooters toward the max with penalties or for scores that mean almost nothing, winning wise? We'd better wake up to the realities of todays potential membership we lose in vast numbers yearly too! It will take several years, if ever, to right the mistakes made in deciding an easier format was best for our sport following in NSSA same path for easier targets! Best for some but who? Place the blame wherever you please but it doesn't change the loss numbers when we won't attempt even trying to improve a dire situation?

    Hap
     
  7. Calkidd

    Calkidd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,325
    Location:
    Central Valley
    I have played the Lewis the last couple of shoots and have come out money ahead. Isn't Lewis design to aware the top, middle and low shooter?
     
  8. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    Cripes...

    Troll season already?!
     
  9. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,840
    User 1, long quotations without notice that they come from someone else, as you have done above, are plagiarism, a form of theft, and make one think less, not more, of the "writer."

    But you are correct in the first post. Betting even money against tall odds makes no sense if money is important to you at all.

    Neil
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,840
    Using wikipedia I found:

    "Plagiarism is defined in dictionaries as "the wrongful appropriation, close imitation, or purloining and publication, of another author's language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions, and the representation of them as one's own original work."

    Which does not say that plagiarism is confined to profit or other gain; it is just the stealing and presenting as one's own which defines the offense.

    Shooting with the odds in your favor is not theft. As with any gambling, it is just the faith that someone will be a greater fool than you, and in that hope, few are disappointed.

    Neil
     
  11. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,551
    Location:
    Wauwatosa Wisconsin
    There is an old saying that opinions ate like A holes, everyone has one. Here is mine. I believe we all put our pants on, one leg at a time. If the ATA got rid of every shooter that averaged over 90 percent, someone that was left, would get better, and become the next high gun. In every sport you have people who do better than others, regardless if its natural ability, or they have a hunger to improve, or they pay for lessons etc. I saw the movie "Patton" and the general stated that America loves a winner. We love the best baseball player, the best boxer, etc. I have been shooting since 1970, not much ability, but every shoot I have always attended, I honestly believed I had a chance to win the tournament. I played most of the money, once in a great while I won and it paid towards expenses. Trapshooting is more than winning. No other sport in the world allows a ham n egger like myself to stand toe to toe with the greatest this sport has to offer. If golfers could play against the likes of Woods and Mickelson each weekend, I think they would jump at the chance. No one is forcing anyone to play the money. If I do, and people think I don't stand a chance of winning, that's my problem as it is my money. Like I said in the start of my response, we put or pants on one leg at a time. Maybe, the ATA should eliminate all this handicapping and let the best man win at each shoot. It may get rid of the cry babies, the people who complain that life is not fair. When I lay money down to shoot, I want to win, and I don't care who the sob is next to me, or what his average is, or if he's an all American. You are only as good as your last shoot. Bring it on.
    Steve Balistreri
     
  12. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,395
    C'mon Neil...

    The guy didn't cite the source but he DID put the excerpt inside quotation marks which indicated that it was not part of his text and was taken from some other source.

    MK
     
  13. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,840
    Thank you, User 1 , now, hopefully, I'll be able to get to sleep tonight.

    Neil
     
  14. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,223
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    I don't think ANY reader here read the mans post as being written by him at all. Not citing his source is a penalty but for what? We all know he didn't write that crap! He copied and pasted it for pete sakes. Pointing out such errors certainly does change the discussions stream though and it's intended to be just that and it works. Baffled with brilliance or buffaloed with BS amounts to the same thing at times.

    Hap
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,840
    Does that mean, Hap, that next time I;m down in Tucson I can take your gun off the rack and take it home because no one there thinks it's mine?

    Neil
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,840
    I see your point, User 1. I'll leave the thread alone.

    Neil
     
  17. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    Not everyone is good in Math. Most of our ATA officials seem to have slept through many of their classes.

    senior smoke seems to think he's qualified to stand toe to toe with Leo and compete. They have medicines for delusional thinking.

    The obvious solution, at least in some of the finest minds in the ATA governance, is to dumb down the sport until everyone can break 100. Everyone becomes a winner and all go home happy.

    Or would they rather market the sport to a bunch of old, retired, wealthy geezers whose arthritic joints bind up if forced to move the muzzle more than three inches and want to believe they could have beaten Dan Bonillas in his prime. After all, their scores are now similar.

    It's gonna be a long winter!!
     
  18. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,144
    Just my opinion but I think you'd be surprised at the number of people that could compete with the "elite" given the same set of circumstances. Most are limited by money or time. Try shooting in competition(500-1100 targets) 20 weeks in a row and see how quick you become better. There really should be a "target count limit" to separate the average joe from the "elite" I'll probably never get a chance to register 200,000 handicaps, and most of you won't either. say if they don't want to be pro's because of the term why not be an elite member?, problem is they like the money from the bottom feeders,
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,538
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    "Just my opinion but I think you'd be surprised at the number of people that could compete with the "elite" given the same set of circumstances. Most are limited by money or time. Try shooting in competition(500-1100 targets) 20 weeks in a row and see how quick you become better."

    I think you forgot a few things in your statement. As an example in the case of handicap form the 27 yard line all your practice for the last 30 years from one yardage 27. There are more but I will leave it to you to figure out.

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Shooting a lot of targets is not the way to become a top shot. Working hard for each target is the way. It is possible to shoot a lot of ATA targets and not be very good. I will not tell you how I know this.

    Pat Ireland
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.