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The ATA in troubled times

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by gundog, Aug 5, 2007.

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  1. gundog

    gundog TS Member

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    I see in this months Trap & Field the ATA is raising target prices for the new shooting year coming up (for the Grand and baby Grands). In view of their financial repost i understand this move. However i wonder if they have considered the reaction to such an increase? It seems to me the economics of this game is such they will lose shooters at these shoots. Its possible this move will cost them money, by having fewer shooters attend.
    We all know of clubs that have raise prices and the club sufferd in the long run for such a move.
    I also would like to see an attempt by the ATA to buy shot in a very large quanity in an attempt to reduce the cost of shooting for their members. Now before you jump on this as a bad proposal, think about it for a minute. Distribution issues could be handeld at the Grand and baby Grands. This way shooters and clubs could arrange pick. I know this presents some problems but think about solutions please.
    My point here is to say i wonder if the ATA is even looking at helping members
    there by helping them selfves there by helping their members ans so on and so on.
    Iam not attacking the ATA i think they thet do a heck of a job, its just that in this time in our shooting history some inovative thinking has to take place if we are going to thrive and prosper.
    Lets hear you thoughts maybe we can come up with a way that will help us all
    keep the ATA alive and well!
     
  2. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Which would you rather have, less shooters paying the way, causing the price per member to rise, as now, or.........................Many more new shooters to spread the costs of running the ATA thus keeping the operating costs low?

    It can be done but I get the feeling that there is not enough promotional experience at the ATA or faith that a good promotional plan will work. Not a rub against the ATA, but it takes an experienced promoter or salesman, if you will, to get a good program going.

    I know it can but it requires a lot of work, follow-up and patience. Currently there is nothing in place but there better be soon or the clay target shooting sports will continue to suffer reductions in membership and participation.
     
  3. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I think the small clubs would be over looked with this system. There are some who only shoot grand, mini grands regional zone. Then their are others who shoot mostly local in state shoots. Maybe ATA should set up a discount for powder shot wads and shells. New to ATA I have seen little ATA hype in my area.
    Does the ATA make attempt to contact local clubs and push for new members. If there was not 1 person shooting ATA at my club I would have never known it was out there! How about starting with walmart dicks cabelas gandermountain and get a ATA discount with some kick backs to the ATA? How much are shells selling for at the grand? As a whole are there enough ATA members for the manufactures to really care. Im getting the feeling they could careless if we shoot or not. as far as shot goes we would run into transportation issues. Maybe ATA should consider investing in shot reclaiming at the larger clubs in each state. I do think with the price of shot going so high it is a reasonable option to look into. Even at the state shoot I didnt see anything saying HEY NOT A ATA MEMBER COMEOVER HERE AND WE WILL GET YOU GOING. maybe there should be a discount for new members who sign up at state shoots? Even the comunication from club to club I think needs improving. Just for the local fun shoots. No coverage of The state shoot in any of the local papers that i see. All that being said I do love shooting, have met some great people and won some stuff here and there. i like going to the other clubs, if money allows i will travel to some bigger shoots and maybe the eastern zone. All the clubs need to make money but there is a tipping point. If prices of targets and events climbs to high along with shells, shot ect ect. It will push me out of shooting ATA.
     
  4. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    I am afraid many will be like mac and not be able to continue shooting. While we may have many more shooters, if the cost keeps going up as as it has in the past year many may not come in or if in, leave. If the ATA or the shot vendors get together and purchase a VERY large amount BEFORE China it may keep many in shooting for a long enough time for prices to come back into line.
     
  5. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

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    The Literalist:

    Ok this is the only post that I agree with 100% on in a long time,

    Sure hope you don't delete this post as you usually do.

    Ok pulldude I don't know what the A.T.A. can do for us because of all of the other competion out there but you did bring up a good point and maybe some of the hgiher up's will take note of it and want to help the common man out and register more A.T.A. target's.

    Myself I don't think the increase of A.T.A. fees will make the difference I think the cost of the reloading and cost of new shells will make or break the bank of shooting.

    Anyway I know that there are a lot of guys out there that could help the common shooter if they was to get a few guys together and buy a lot of stuff at 1 time.

    Of course it probably won't happen but maybe some of the good real good guy's will think of helping us common shooter's.


    Foghorn220
     
  6. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    How much is a lot before the dicounts kick in? What is the ATA doing to help the costs? Are they even talking to the manufactures? Thru my club there is no real dicount on supply. with orders over 1500.00 we get free shipping. Problem being do not always get what you want, do not know what you didnt get until truck arrives. I see dicks offers discounts to organizations why not ata. I have tried contacting dicks for group discount perchases for ammo for club no luck. I have yet to see any ATA info in any gun store large or small.
     
  7. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    Foggy has it to a point. 2 bucks increase in ATA dues is no great shakes(I'm suprised they are THAT low) As far as shooting cost go, True, many shooters will "suck it up" and drive on high cost or no, but the rising cost of shells and components are putting the binders on a lot of working folks. The wife might be a shooter(thank God mine is!),but many spouses who don't shoot had a hard enough time seeing the cost of hubby's hobby BEFORE the big ammo price sticker shock wave! If the washer is leaking and the car needs breaks(or just traded in), johnny needs a new bike,or sally needs braces, the shooting budget will get mighty tight! Remember many small clubs (who are the ATA's real life blood) depend on the few local shooters to pay the bills. The league, game and weekend practice shooters are really the ones paying the freight on most the smaller clubs. While cost of shooting are increasing rapidly, wages in general ARE NOT! Most households need two incomes just to stay afloat, pay bills, mortgages, and health insurance. My wife and I are lucky to have good jobs plus my military retirement, but many couples(especially the younger ones) are struggling right now. The SCTP program may get a few grants and perks here and there, but for the most part it's Mom and Dad paying the piper for the kids to shoot. Like all things there ARE priorities and a break point. Hopefully the prices will spike and level off soon. If not you will probably see some people leave the game.
     
  8. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    two issues with a CO Opt idea- which sounds good

    1. It would squeeze out others who need this revenue as part of their revenue stream to keep other shooting items for recreational or other event use in the pipeline for everyone

    2. Probably not enough buying power

    3. Dropped shipped? Transportation on targets from a central point might eat you alive- Essentially it would probably cause less management

    4. Rather than working on cost of supplies- what about getting more shooters in? what about getting junior shooters in? What about increasing numbers of shooters through possibly new safety programs, working with DNRs, or working with for example the NSSA--spreading your overhead costs and keeping costs passed through to the shooters down



    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    The ATA does not belong in the shot selling business. I seriously doubt if our current arrangement of distributors and vendors could be improved.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Wilma Harris

    Wilma Harris TS Member

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    The $2 increase in TARGET prices would go to the host gun clubs. The ATA wouldn't get any of the TARGET fees, only the daily fees. I would bet that the gun clubs that host the baby grands are the ones asking for the ATA to allow them to charge a higher fee for targets. Increased cost in labor (minimum wage increase) as well as the targets is probably the reason for this.

    This increase only tells us who sets the target fees at the baby grands.
     
  11. KelleyPLK

    KelleyPLK TS Member

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    I believe some of the option money has been LQQKED at and ATA wouldn,t mind
    keeping a little more of the loot ? Everything is Going up . Lumber Concrete
    Steel Zink Aluminum Prices rising daily ! We are in a natural resources demand .
    And our present administration (politics) are going to stop this gouging ! Vote your wallet this next time around things will improve . OIL HEALTH CARE Rx Drugs , We can damn sure do better than Just raise the cost of doing business
    And layoff help send work to mexico China India ect. Close the Boarders . Its time .Stop the massive imbalances . Im conservative but this closed eye view
    in the America the Beautiful has gone way beyond our means to cope with . The hell with these leaches overseas and south of the boarder . Lets Vote our wallets .Id much rather deal with unions than depend on these 3 rd rate products coming in now .

    Pat Kelley
     
  12. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    The ATA has lost a great deal of revenue via the move to Sparta - camping rentals, new shell rake offs, vendor rentals, etc. It would appear that their expenses have not dropped commesurately. Hence the need for increasing fees.

    Further, participation in registered shoots is dropping which leads to even lower revenues. Can raising the fees a couple of dollars compensate for all this? When a decision such as this is contemplated, the decision makers must start with a list of assumptions. This includes how many shooters you think you will have. I wonder what they projected.

    With gas prices at the $2.50 to $3.00 level, component costs in the stratosphere and ATA fees increasing, it would seem that some shooters would cut back or even drop out. These are indeed troubling times for the ATA. Will it survive? Will it changem in scope and function? If there is an economic downturn as will happen if the Dems are elected in 2008 and implement their stated tax policies, I predict that the ATA will lose as much as an additional 25% of its revenue. What will they need to soak the remaining participant then?
     
  13. Finprof

    Finprof TS Member

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    This might be a bit off-topic about the ATA, but I joined as a new member and sent in my dues by Paypal on June 24 and haven't heard anything from them since - no card, no welcome, no nothing and it has been over 5 weeks. When I rejoined the NRA I got a pile of stuff from them every time I went to the mailbox- mostly asking for money but at least the NRA acknowledges my existence.
     
  14. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    finprof, when I joined the ATA it took a while for my stuff to come too and rarely do I get anything from them.
     
  15. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The ATA has never been a promoter of trapshooting other than in its existance, the small clubs across the country are the true promoters of both the ATA, trapshooting and clay target sports ... These clubs and the people involved in the operation of same are the lifeblood of clay target shooting sports ... If the EC of the ATA had half as many members that would be less expense money that the shooters would have to pay when it comes to the Satelite Grands, State shoots, etc. because they do get some amount of reimbursement for travel and expenses ... The clerical people in the ATA office are entitled to being paid a fair wage for their performing and keeping the ATA running on a daily basis for without them there would not be anything done in or about the ATA for the EC to take credit for ... Personally, I think the EC has been sucking the Life out of the ATA for a number of years and that will continue until there is no more ATA ... The move to Sparta is thought of as the "Begining of the End" for the ATA by many, only time will tell ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  16. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Fortunately some shooters won't skip a beat regardless of all associated costs participating in the game and that's great for those so fortunate. Smaller clubs (most) will have a tougher time staying afloat as everything is going up by leaps and bounds as never before. The smaller clubs will be the ones that have to change their method of attracting shooters, not ATA. I look for some enterprising operators/member clubs to start throwing less targets with more meaning, read tougher type targets. Less time involved, less shoot-offs, less targets shot to determine who's best that day. I can understand ATA not wanting to cut down on the numbers of targets thrown, it adds to the added money at the bigger ATA shoots and grows the ATA in added office work.

    The small club that offers shooters the chance or PERCEPTION to possibly win something on their "hot day" will survive, or at least have some chance. Offering something to attract shooters is the trick but word spreads like wildfire when money is on the line. Cut the target total in half and increase the difficulty factor X two giving the short yardage shooters the perception of having a chance of actually winning with a hot day. There's all kinds of ways of setting up options on 50 targets, just use a little imagination here?

    You can look at hard times shooting in prior ATA history, like the stock market crash in late 20s, or the world war years, ATA format didn't change then either. The overall totals may have gone down a little but not drastic. I don't expect any change from ATA now either but for the small clubs to survive, some kind of changes are necessary in my opinion for their survival. ATA needs those clubs to survive as stated above. Innovative ideas are needed before seed planting time, if a harvest is expected. Hap
     
  17. boneman

    boneman TS Member

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    It's not just the A.T.A. that's in trouble it's the whole country. The A.T.A. isn't perfect but it's being ran by humans so what do you expect. They do what they have to do to keep the organization running. I most likely will not join again do to health reasons but I plan on shooting trap as it's one of the best things going. Thank you for your time. Larry
     
  18. shadow

    shadow Active Member

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    The current management of the ATA has upheld a long tradition of only help themselves and a few select shooters.

    Wise up guys, it is way past time for an overhaul!
     
  19. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Back to the original point of the post - keeping costs down for ATA members.

    Everything that is being suggested is based on a simple premise - that we are paying too much as it is. Can anyone prove that to be true? If it's not true, then there's no way things are going to get cheaper.

    Do you expect Gander Mountain or Dick's to give a 10 percent discount on something that can't afford to discount? Your component vendor to drop prices even though his prices aren't dropping? How many of you that own businesses have reduced your prices 10% across the board recently to help out your customers?

    In some respect this post is really about the fact that "stuff" is getting more expensive and people don't want to pay more for "stuff". From my perspective, if you think you are paying too much for something you have three choices - pay the asking price, find somewhere cheaper, or do without.

    You know what they say - it's not the cost of living that is so high, it's the cost of enjoying it that is so high!

    Scott
     
  20. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    TAL/il

    In 1979, I think it was 79, The ISTA found themselves owners of the old Mathers Gun Club and a hefty mortgage. The board felt the need to raise the annual dues 5 bucks and the daily fees a buck to help us have a permanent home grounds that almost everybody liked. Guess what happened.

    More than half of the membership either stopped shooting or stopped shooting in Illinois just to avoid the increase. They did it because of principle. Don't underestimate the power of principle.
     
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