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The 2007 ATA BOD meeting minutes

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Neil Winston, Oct 3, 2007.

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  1. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    ...are available at the link posted above.

    Neil
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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  3. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    sadly I have not been able to get to page 3 of the ATAA minutes. My machine says Adobe 7.0 has encountered a problem and has to close.

    I did however read the ATA minutes and a couple of things jump off the page at me. Asking the BOD to talk to shooters about making changes to multiple Categories is really quite funny. Are you going to take the majority or the minority (Jr., Ladies) as the "input"? If the rules need to be changed, propose a change and vote. The current BOD members I know are not going to talk to anybody for any input on this question.

    Having words in the new target setting area like "speeds will most likely be", and "It isw exected that the chrono speeds will be" does not harmonize with having a RULE. People really gotta learn how to be clear and decisive. These words are not going to fix or enhance anything.
     
  4. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    Thank you Mr. Winston.

    Interestingly, I too encountered problems with page 3 and my program crashed and closed. After 4 tries, I went to page 4...I'd rather not print out 29 pages, just to read one that seems to not agree with my program.
     
  5. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    My point - the words "it is expected" is not clear or decisive in my opinion. You need to read the minutes, not my little snippets. The subject is target setting and having a BOD that is claiming to pass rules that will "clear everything up"
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The ATAA minutes are no different from the ATA minutes, beyond the name, that is.

    HGWT, I see no harm in the Directors asking the shooters what they want. Do they want young ladies (mostly) to be able to switch categories mid-shoot or not?

    And, you should understand, these minutes are not a rule. They describe a forthcoming rule. What's indecisive about saying what a rule will be? That part in quotations: "clear everything up" is misleading, since the quotation marks give the reader the impression that it is quoting something in the minutes. But it isn't.

    The motion was made in that fashion for many reasons. In the first place, that 42 MPH figure is correct for high-power guns at the 16 and low power guns right behind the trap at roof level. But it is wrong for a radar gun using Bob Schultz' "Pat Pal" which needs two or three MPH more. So if it said, HGWT, "decisively" forty-two, and the BOD passed it, the rule would be wrong for the users of that device. Would it be better to hash out every variation (there are chronographs as well, after all) or simply to assure the BOD that the rules, when promulgated, will end up with that kind of target and describe how to get it? They must have been convinced - they all voted for it - knowing that the rules will be definitive when they appear in the book.

    Neil
     
  7. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Neil,

    Fine work with the BOD meeting minutes with the "Flights And Angles". The motion to amend was clear and concise to those that work with target setting. I am strongly in favor of the stated procedures and speeds.

    If the Directors didn't ask the shooters what they wanted, that would not be right.
     
  8. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    very interesting - I had a response to Neil Winston but is seems to have disappeared. Could it be that I actually hit the truth and the powers that be could not stand to hear the truth from from the little people?? Whoever you are - clearly you are a yellow dog -

    I only spoke the truth - the new rules "rules" regarding target setting are not clear and thinking the BOD will actually poll the membership is very naive.

    Why I got deleted is way beyond me. I did not curse, attack, demean, or engage in name calling or anything else. I just spoke my opinion.
     
  9. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    <I>"sadly I have not been able to get to page 3 of the ATAA minutes. My machine says Adobe 7.0 has encountered a problem and has to close."</I>

    Might I respectfully suggest that anyone having trouble with Adobe (and that should be just about everyone) would be happier switching to the Foxit Reader. It does everything faster than Adobe and uses a lot less system resources in the bargain. It also displays page 3 without a hitch.

    Morgan
     
  10. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    Capt Morgan - will it work with Firefox?
     
  11. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    <I>"Capt Morgan - will it work with Firefox?"</I>

    Yes, it works well with FF.

    Morgan
     
  12. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    HGWT;

    Directors did ask for input, I gave input, so apparently you weren't paying attention.
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Roger Coveleskie - You mentioned that height and distance worked well, but I could never figure out the distance part. Could you tell me the correct distance to set targets into an eight MPH NNE wind? I do not know what it is, but I do know it is not 50 yards.

    I would never wait for a delegate to ask me what I thought about a possible change. I make it a point to tell them how I feel before they ask me.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Works fine with Adobe 8.0. Try updating to the current version.
     
  15. jimbob

    jimbob TS Member

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    Now wait a minute before you go changing the "target setting rules/suggestions"!! I haven't had a chance to try the Neil Winston approved "good ole boy - eyeball the target to get them the way you want them" target setting method. Please wait long enough for me to try this.
    Thanks, wbJP...
     
  16. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    The rule book states a height of 8' to 10' is allowed,,,and that is a good thing,,if shoot management is agreeable.
     
  17. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect to Roger C, I am interested in his answer also.
     
  18. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    "Could you tell me the correct distance to set targets into an eight MPH NNE wind?" Pat -- you must be shooting in some pretty nice places... How about Silver Dollar anytime during the winter? What is the correct distance in a 20-30 MPH coming at your face? Or straight up E/W? Methinks that if you get them to the stake that they might be a wee bit fast.

    At the Indiana State Shoot (and, come to think of it, the GL Grand, Illinois State Shoot, Missouri Fall Handicap, etc) it is not out the question to see huge variations in wind speed and/or direction from day to day. Are you just supposed to set it and forget it?

    I fully support setting targets by chronograph. It is the easiest way to get consistant targets from trap to trap if you are running 3 or more traps.

    Carmi this weekend, as always, sets by chrono. Good day, a little hot, little wind. 10 squads and we had EIGHT 100s in 16s. That's 16% of the shooters. In the caps we had two 98s, a 97, and a whole mess of 96s and 95s. Those that have not shot on a chrono set field are missing out.

    John
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Several have mentioned "the good old boys" and I am not really sure what they mean. I do believe that after setting targets the correct speed and height, it is very important for an experienced person to stand on post three and look at a few targets. My radar gun will not tell me if the targets are level or if the angles are too wide. The target height might be correct looking at a straight away from post three but the left bird can be low and the right bird high.

    Height poles and radar guns are essential but they cannot replace an experienced person looking at the targets.

    John- I will shoot Silver Dollar this January and I am making arrangements for the wind to be 4 MPH from the South. The temperature will be between 75-83 and the big white birds will not be allowed to land on the ground during shooting hours.

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. shadow

    shadow Active Member

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    Got around to making some sort of rule about taking a shooters money and not recording the targets they shot Neil???
     
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