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Term Limits for Delgates

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by TX-MX, Jul 28, 2010.

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  1. TX-MX

    TX-MX TS Member

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    This is not a direct answer to the whole reimbursement thing, but this is symptomatic of the need for term limits for delegates. No way should the same person be a state's delegate for a decade or more.

    Most [nearly all] delegates are well meaning, long time trapshooters who are only serviing in good faith for the benefit of the sport - but that's not the point.

    For this to be a truly representative function there needs to be some orderly turnover. In any given year, a BOD meeting should have 10-20 new delegates in attendance. That will keep the sport fresh, make the rank and file feel a bit more like they are part of the process. At state meetings, the members will need to pay attention every 5 years or so as they will be electing a new delegate.

    As of now, the whole leadership process, now matter how well intended, has the look and feel of a closed shop. New ideas, not to mention, new blood, is hard to get into the flow of things.

    The reimbursment issue is a drop in the bucket, but is symptomatic of the fact that a change in our structure and better opportunities for new blood have to be worked into our present system.
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    TX-MX- With the current system, very few delegates serve a decade.

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    TX-MX I agree with new blood, new Ideas, as I noted in Previous post this is a modern Society, with Internet, E-mail, Webinars, that is all that is needed to conduct meetings.

    This process of becoming President by standing in line is a very poor way of doing business.

    The only way is by voting of membership on who they feel will do the job that is needed.

    At each zone shoot voice who you want to be delegate, the delegate with the most votes gets to be President. This is conducted Worldwide, so everyone gets to vote and the votes are counted by an independent non shooting organization, or institution.

    Let's save monies and do it the Modern Way



    Gary Bryant
    Life Member
    Dr.longshot
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Gary- Did you forget that most Zone Shoots are telephonic? Hard to have a good discussion using a FAX machine.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    Pat, In this modern computer based society a computer camera & a mike is all that is needed to have a "face to face" meeting. It could be done inexpensively & just as effective as transporting all the required to a "central" location, and a darn lot cheaper. Most all of these men have computers and should be able to figure how to sit in front of the camera and say their piece. Votes could be done utilizing e-mail & all the organizations mail to each & everyone of them could be electronic as well as most of it probably is already. Postage savings would be minute compared to the travel expenses we are discussing but it's a start.

    Big Jack
     
  6. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Big Jack, don't forget the high speed internet connection on both ends of that computer. Does skype allow three way calling???

    Also, since there should be a decent crowd ( 40 - 50+ )at these meetings a large screen monitor so that all can see and a speaker system robust enough so that all can hear.

    Can it be done? Sure, but it's going to take a bit more than a computer and a camera to make it work well.

    Gary, Delegates are elected at the state shoot. Maybe you meant you vote for your Zone VP.

    How would you vote for VP's from other zones during your zone election? If you didn't elect the VP until the zone shoot when would you elect the Pres from the various VP positions? Wouldn't the zone with the largest shooter population be the one that could elect their VP to the presidency, year after year?

    I think the current system is better than that.
     
  7. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    Meetings would not be able to be held as they were in the past but they could be held. Come on people!!! Companies save millions of dollars on air fare and hotels and meals by holding electronic meetings. HEY ALL YOU OLD FARTS!!!!Technology is your friend. Embrace it.

    Jeff
     
  8. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    How in the world did our founders of the sport get by before telephones were common place? In 1904 there was only 140 miles of paved roads in the entire country!! That, yet we use almost those same guidelines/methods of the 20s, when ATA was established, for "meetings?" yet today. Sometimes change is necessary when needed and we certainly need a few today to take any and all advantages possible.

    How we elect state delegates is a whole nuther matter that could use a little attention today also? What percentage of a states members actually attend their state shoot where this important election takes place? Very small indeed percentage wise! Term limits should depend on the job the delegate is doing for his states membership wishes alone. The road to recovery or change may be as difficult or easy as we make it.

    Hap
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hap- There are more serious questions about delegate elections. First, how many shooters know what is going on and what needs to be done? Second, how many shooters care?

    I suspect that most shooters want to pull up at a club, visit with friends a little, shoot good targets and go home. That is the limit of their interests.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"... First, how many shooters know what is going on and what needs to be done? Second, how many shooters care?

    I suspect that most shooters want to pull up at a club, visit with friends a little, shoot good targets and go home. That is the limit of their interests."</i></blockquote>

    Exactly right, Pat. Sounds like federal government, the mortgage market and Wall Street, too. People expect their bureaucratic systems to work but have no way of finding out what's really going on until some poo hits the propeller.

    MK
     
  11. twcpdc

    twcpdc Member

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    Most shooter don't care they just want to enjoy there sport. That is why thing start going bad and contiue to do so till there is a major up rising like now. Things will get better because of changes or the people there see they have to do better to keep there happy home. I hope the people will make some changes to get the sport to grow. I am 60 and sometimes it lookes like I am the young guy at the club. Term limits put some great people out but more often I think they get bad people out so in the long run I agree term limits will help. Wish we had them for our elected gov. offices. Tom
     
  12. SF SGM

    SF SGM Member

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    Perhaps they should read the IRS statute dealing with the payment of per diem: In IRC Sec. 170(j), the law makes it clear that deductions are allowed for transportation or other travel
    expenses (including meals and lodging) incurred in the performance of services away from home on
    behalf of a charitable organization “if there is no significant element of personal pleasure, recreation,
    or vacation.”

    Van
     
  13. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    The term limit / new blood thing is automatically limited by the age of trapshooters, current rules, and the price of membership.

    What could he be talking about you say. Please consider that ATA Delegates must be Life Members of the ATA before they can be elected. Now consider an ATA shooter who might want run for Delegate is probably 55 years old. A life membership is what - 500 bucks? Annual membership is 20. So it will take 25 years before the 55 year old seeking the delegate slot can break even on the life membership. So why would someone want the delegate slot?
     
  14. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    I think that there is far less wrong with the bylaws of the ATA than some are getting excited about. What we need is a self-examination, an independent examination followed by a transparent reporting of our official actions to the membership. That's a lot of stuff but our rules dictate. We need our officials to serve as worthy porters of the association and nothing less.
     
  15. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    You have a list of shooters-life members who want to be delegates right? Only so many of them can get elected at their State Level Right? Now we have a list of delegates from all the states Right? Now the membership has a list of delegates to choose from the states to choose from right? Now the ATA office posts this list on the ATA website right? Now the membership voyes on the delegate they want to be president, some delegates are more populkar than others by the shoots the attend and the frinds they made and the actions they have taken. Now they vote for the person right? Now he is president should be a term of 3-4 years to enact what needs to be done in the best interest of the sport of registered trapshooting.

    Flalargato for a retired, or retarded minister you take the cake. You only read what you want to read, and understand only what you want to understand
    just like the sinners you have preached to.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
    Life member
     
  16. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Pat Ireland was not talking about ZONE SHOOTS, was talking about each states zone shoot election of delegates. You have to read my previos post to get what I meant. The president would be elected by a vote by the members from a list on the ATA website, or a list mailed to each member with a ballot to cast for who they want to be president, and for a 3-4 year term.

    Flagrato is Jerry Bryant and not a relative from Florida thank GOD.
    He started shooting registered targets in 1990 sort of a newbie compared to me starting in 1968 which was 22 years earlier, and more expierence in the way it used to be, with 3 hole targets which he never shot.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  17. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    MAJOR UPRISING?????


    You gotta be kidding!


    Just a bunch of Old Pharts looking to see their name up on a website!

    How many of these whiners would actually step up and run for one of those offices?
     
  18. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    This old Phart listens and sees who should be on the EC Committee to best serve the trapshooters, Personally I feel these are just a few I would suggest.
    Gary Sherrod present Pres., Dale Stockdale, Gene Sears, Britt Robinson, Steve Carmichael, Brad Dysinger, Dr. Frank Rively, Berlie Wilson, these are just a few that come to mind, I know there are others that have the best interests of new shooters, and Joe the Plumber Average trapshooters in mind.

    I would like to be on the panel of selection of the Executive Committee.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  19. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    First, the idea if you term limit delegates you will automatically get fresh, new ideas, is naive to say the least.


    I would not do anything to interfere with the way delegates are elected or their term of office. These are grass roots state issues and if the people decide to re-elect the same person that should be their choice.


    If you want to make a meaningful change then insist that the EC adopt a policy of total transparency.


    Jerry Hauser
     
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