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TARGETS ONLY & CLASSIFICATION

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by gdbabin, Jul 16, 2007.

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  1. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Two questions:

    1. If a shooter elects targets only in caps to avoid penalty and ends-up with the highest score for an event (say 197), does the next highest score who didn't waive (say 196) get the first place trophy? I assume so, but if that happened to me (a BIG if at this point), it would jade the thrill of "winning" first as I wasn't the top gun in the event.

    2. Why are the classification averages less stringent at the Grand than the eastern region state shoots I've recently participated in? For example at the MD, VA, and WVA shoots, my 1,000 target 91.6 put me in B class per the program (anything above 91). According to the program at the Grand my avg. puts me in C as you must have a 93 or better to class up to B. I'm not complaining mind you, but my pea brain would think it'd be just the opposite. Can anyone help me understand the logic?

    Guy Babin
     
  2. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Guy:

    The Grand uses 6 classes. The shoots you listed must be using only 5 classes. The breakpoints for the classes are different depending on how many classes there are. It would be a good idea to read the rulebook, it's all in there.
     
  3. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    If you shoot a punchable score in a handicap event you still get a punch.
     
  4. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    DeVil'sAdvoCate:

    Maybe you should have said stupid. I didn't make the correlation with numbers of classes and break points so I wouldn't have thought to look it up in the book. I have looked at some of your posts here and it seems you have a propensity for unsolicited editorial commentary--I guess we all need something to be good at.

    870: I appreciate your response.

    Guy Babin
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Guy, regarding your question 1. Say the winner took his penalty and shot the winning score from there. Or he had planned ahead and shot the required targets. You shot closer because you decided to, knowing you wouldn't win a trophy. Why should he feel bad?

    Neil
     
  6. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Neil, Not the guy that shot closer--waive penality no trophy period. It's the next lower score. If that were me, I'd accept the first place trophy, but I'd know in my mind that someone shot better than me--that's all.

    Guy
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I, in contrast, Guy, would know in my heart, that I read the rules, shot the required targets, and so was eligible for winning - and the other guy didn't.

    Neil
     
  8. motrap

    motrap Member

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    Guy ...... "Neil, Not the guy that shot closer--waive penalty no trophy period. It's the next lower score. If that were me, I'd accept the first place trophy, but I'd know in my mind that someone shot better than me--that's all"

    If you are referencing any Class other than AA (or AAA if present) there ALWAYS are shooters that shot better than you ...........

    also consider, ........ a significant % of the shooters you beat in your class, will not even be in that class at the next shoot ........

    For what it's worth ...... you ABSOLUTELY won whatever class you are talking about, "according to the rules" .......... how else could you determine it ?

    Now Categories, there's something that is absolute, no sandbagging involved ....... the Class system has been derived ONLY to find a way to give more "feel-good" trophies. If the guy that beat you had broken 1 more target or 1 less target last May, it is entirely possible that he wouldn't even have been in your class at this shoot to beat you ............ what then ?(especially if there really was a chip, that no one saw, for that one extra lost target........)
     
  9. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Personally...I think that the "Targets Only" option should be eliminated from any/all shoots. If a shooter wishes to shoot for targets only...then go to a practice trap.

    It's called competition for a reason!!

    Curt - Delaware
     
  10. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    It's the difference between being a competitor or a participant. Take your choice.

    Don
     
  11. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    I agree Don that is the choice. My wife does not have all of her caps registered yet and is working toward that goal for the Grand. She has only been shooting for six months, and shooting at 25 yrds penalty is a bit intimidating. She'd rather waive and shoot the 20 yd line, which is where she'll shoot once she has enough targets.

    The problem with your point Curt is shooting a practice trap does not result in registered targets. To compete at a shooter's respective skill level, we need to qualify at that level. In singles and doubles shooting in classes above your skill level is not as much of an issue as everyone shoots from the 16.

    Guy
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Guy, your wife is in luck. The new Grand target requirements, courtesy of one whose name modesty forbids me mention, are just 1000, not 2000 as had been true for years.

    Neil
     
  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    grnberetcj your opinion is your business. "Personally...I think that the "Targets Only" option should be eliminated from any/all shoots" Now just a comment and question on your opinion. If A shooter any shooter goes to any/all shoots and plays no options does this mean that you feel that he should shoot on the practice trap? Like it or not any shooter that does not play the options is a "Target Only Shooter"

    Bob Lawless
     
  14. hubcap

    hubcap TS Member

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    When I first started shooting I shot for trophies only rather than go back and shoot from the 25 yd line. I shot some good handicap scores along the way and won some trophies in the process. I don't ever regret doing it that way and I think that it helped me to be a better shooter by doing it that way.

    hubcap
     
  15. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Bob....No kidding?

    But, I was referring to the shoots where a target requirement is in place. At the smaller registered shoots there are no minimum targets required.

    I stated that it's just my opinion/feeling that at shoots where there is a target requirement, then the participant must shoot in a penalty yardage and/or class. I really don't care if the ATA changes that rule or not as most shooter's are only participants and not competitors anyway.

    Curt
     
  16. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Curt I acknowledged the fact that you said it was your opinion. I think the thing that is confusing and lead me to read something other than what you say you intended. Is your use of the phrase "from any/all shoots" their is no distinction between target requirements and non-target requirements.

    No harm done I just wanted to make sure that you knew there was a difference believe it or not some shooters don't know that they can shoot Targets Only at any shoot.

    Bob Lawless
     
  17. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Bob, the only complication I'll throw in is that I have seen that term, "targets only", used in different ways by different people. To some it means as you have said - no options but still competing for trophies. Other times I have seen it mean no options AND not eligible for any trophies. Usually applied to avoid penalty yardage or class.

    Have to be careful what is meant by it in each specific situation because there is a great difference between the two.
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Kolar-G your point is?

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Kolar-G from what I have seen it depends on the state/club. As far as "Targets Only" shooters is concerned all new shooter that start shooting the season Know they have to meet target requirements if they want to shoot their own State's Championships and they don't complain so why are the people that are addressing this thread?

    If you or anyone is planning on attending a shoot that has penalty attached to the classification should know and except these facts why come on this site and tell everyone that you think you deserve better. What do you/he/she/they or anyone think they will accomplish?

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. Beancounter

    Beancounter TS Member

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    Targets only is a silly option. If you sign up for it, you will register targets but you cannot win anything!! Why in the heck would you pay $25/100 for practice targets?? Better off to take the penalty and get something for a good score. You have to get hot to win at handicap anyway.
     
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