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target year change

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by happy, May 22, 2008.

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  1. happy

    happy Member

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    What reason will anyone have to regester targets in the fall after the grand if they don't count for next year? The E board is once again not thinking. No one north of the Mason dixon line has time to regester enough targets in the spring for most state shoots. I have always used the new target year in the fall to shoot as many targets as I could before our 5 months of no regestered targets. (It's called winter) Not every shooter goes south and shoots all winter. This decision could be the straw that finally breaks the ATA. It could bankrup many small clubs who have 2 or 3 regestered shoots in the fall. But will have no reason to put any on since no one will come. Combined with the economics this year which has alresdy cut most shoots by 15%to 45%. I live in Northern Illinois and this spring has had very few good weekends to shoot. Our state shoot is in 2 weeks and lots of shooters havn't regestered a target this year. How will the E-BOARD counter the loss of regestered target income from the fall shoots no one will go to? Maybe they should create more SATILITE GRANDS. Great idea except none of the satilite grands have ever made MONEY. This could be the end of the ATA. Not brought down by SPARTA, but by the internal working of it's own elected officers. If anyone can show us the finacials of the SATILITE GRAND I will take back the never made money statement. Maybe this would be a good time to reduce the satilites and make them the great shoots they were back in the beginings. Norm Gilmoure
     
  2. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    Like the old saying goes:

    "A bitching soldier is a happy soldier". Norm must be happy. LOL
     
  3. zinger

    zinger Member

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    Was talking about this last week and have to agree with Norm. The ATA better rethink this crazy idea of changing the target year.
     
  4. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

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    The change of dates may not have near the effect of the declining economy, gas prices, rising target prices, and all the other escalating costs. Yes, we will continue to shoot until the disposable income dwindles, but then??? Just had a fella comment last evening, the ride to the club takes two plus gallons of gas, he's shooting home brewed shot and has reduced his shooting to the once a week league and sometimes a practice round or two. Won't be long before his level of shooter drops from the active list. I think all the small clubs are already feeling the pinch. The ATA will acknowledge the decline when it hit their pocketbook.

    Big Jack
     
  5. Don S

    Don S Member

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    I think it was the Board of Directors not the Executive committee that approved the change. It will take a vote by the Board of Directors at this years Grand American to change it back. Talk to your delegate.
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    It was explained on an earlier thread that it was done to keep the girls in the office happy. Is that true? HMB
     
  7. at_trap_89

    at_trap_89 TS Member

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    I don't see a problem with changing the target year - if your state association doesn't have the current/previous year clause in the requirement, they simply need to adjust the minimum target requirement rule. Even if you have a high requirement and need 1000 targets; it should be in the current and previous year combined so if you have 800 from the prev. year, and shoot 200 before your state shoot, you have your minimum. Thats not a lot to ask.

    And whats with arguing about a "reason" to shoot in the fall? The only reason I need to shoot is a shoot going on somewhere..I don't need incentive, I shoot for the enjoyment. Just shoot and have fun - so you register 900 target from April-October, you only need 100 come Spring to make a 1000-target minimum come next April. Whats the problem?

    This target year worked before..people are too caught up with whining to think about things logically. Given the choice of thinking or bitching, it seems most would choose bitching every time. Just shoot the targets. The ATA should let this change be.

    David
     
  8. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I pointed out in the other Target Year thread that the PITA has had November 1st target year for many years and without any problems. PITA bases averages on the last 1000 targets shot at and you are required to carry your last year's card to verify your current average if you have less than 1000 targets. This is a more logical system in many respects instead of the emphasis on an artificial Calender Date to determine minimum target requirements.
     
  9. Trap4

    Trap4 Member

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    at-trap-89--couldn't have said it better.

    Trap-4
     
  10. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    For those with unlimited disposable income nothing really matters. For the shooters on fixed income with a limit on what they can spend on recreation this just gives one more reason not to spend the gas, shot, etc., running all around in the spring if you need targets. I remember having to do that when I lived up North and with all the added expense these days I can understand shooters not feeling its worth it and just going back to shooting for recreation at the local club. Doesn't mean anything to me here in FL cause we shoot registered 3-5 times a week at the Silver Dollar year round. JRM
     
  11. happy

    happy Member

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    This is not bitchin. I was just stateing some facts. How many baseball games are played after the world series. Do they play football games after the superbowl that count for the season . The Grand is our superbowl,world series and world championship all wrapped up in one event. All averages should be finnished at the end of the Grand and champions should be awarded for their accomplishments. Let the next season begin.
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    David- Your comment about the combined targets for the current and previous target year forget about the significant number of new members we get each year. A new member will typically join the ATA at the first registered shoot he attends. In many States this will be around mid May, four to six weeks prior to his state shoot.

    A common requirement is 1000 targets in the current and previous year with 500 targets shot in the current year. For many, these 500 targets, actually 500 singles, handicap and doubles for a total of 1500 targets, will have to be shot in a 4-6 week time frame. For me, the change will not be a problem. I shoot a lot of targets. But it could be a problem for others. The target year will begin on Nov. 1 next year. If a shooter from North Dakota wants to go to the Dixie Grand in January, how many targets can he shoot in North Dakota between November and January? Last week I visited with a few PA shooters at the South Carolina State Shoot (middle of May). Next year how many shooting days will PA shooters have between November and the first week in May?

    HMB above posted the only reason the change was made. And, has anyone wondered why Nov. 1 was selected instead of Jan. 1?

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Pat, in the days_gone_by when the target year was the same as the calender year, how did the new shooter keep from getting penalty classification then at the state shoots?
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Martin, I do not remember. Do you?

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    I do not know what or/if this change will be detrimental or not, but I will state, it seems the ATA BoD has made a lot of changes in recent years. I, for one, cannot determine what their objectives are. But I also will take the opinion that most are VERY detrimental to the sport. We need a complete change in structure. WE NEED to hire a good Director, and give him/her the ability to move forward. Period. - Jim
     
  16. happy

    happy Member

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    I will post the finacial statements Tue. when I get back to my office. The only Grand that made money was Empire A wopping $164.00. I don't think This is money cleared by the host club But the money cleared by the ATA. Give me time to get the by to my desk and I'll post them on here. As I asked before don't tear me apart for bringing this to everyones attention. If I'm wrong I'll admit it. Norm.
     
  17. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Pat, sort of but remember we didn't have all the satellite grands we do now in the spring. But in the winter folks went out west or to Florida and they didn't worry about minimums. I don't remember the state shoots requiring the numbers they do now and I will look for some of the old programs I have or think I have.
     
  18. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    I think the OLD target year started oct.1st, not in Nov. At any rate For people who "JUST DON"T SEE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS" it comes down to simple math. Yes, the the individual states COULD reduce their target requirements, BUT the fact is that IS NOT going to happpen! Also the big factor is the GRAND, which is bases on CURRENT TARGET YEAR totals only. If you don't start getting accumulating targets until November then if you are a nothern shooter you have lost well over 4 months of decent shooting weather.Even in the south, there isn't much shooting during the winter months. While I don't shoot for an average or to make the ALL American team, some shooters DO, and that puts those folks in a destinct disadvantage. This change will GREATLY reduce the target numbers in the ATA overall since many shooters up north will NOT have the ability to shot targets during the winter months and won't shot many targets in Sept./Oct. if those don't count on next years totals.If you are shooting for target numbers to qualify for the Grand then it's like the Air space above you or the runway behind you. Both aren't going to do you any good. I really don't care about some target org. out west. They DON"T have the GRAND, They DON"T effect the Grand and they DON"T affect anybody's state shoot, or have ANY effect on my ATA targets so why should I care about when they start their target year . Of course if you are like DADDY WAR BUCKS, having PLENTY of money and LOT"S of free time, you can jump into your million dollar motor coach and buzz down to south FL or out to AZ. and shoot lots of targets, but for all of us working stiffs that is not an option. This idea was bad, is bad, and will continue to be BAD, but like the above poster said, talking about it here Won't help. Call your delegates.
     
  19. Grayson Mayne

    Grayson Mayne Member

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    Still the question goes unanswered. Why was it changed? If it was not for the good of the shooters then it should not have been changed and I have yet to hear how it helped the shooters. Once again someone has lost sight of the mission.
     
  20. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Grayson, Pat answered week before last on a thread like this one. He said it was soley to help the office ladies out.
     
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