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Target Spin/Arm Length

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by phirel, Mar 21, 2007.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    It has been claimed on other threads that the spin applied to a target is, in part, a function of the length of the arm. A few others have stated that the spin is due to the rotation force applied to the target only by the tip of the arm. If this is true, arm length would not have a major influence on target spin and the speed of the arm would be the major factor. I have always believed that arm speed and friction between the arm and the target are the primary determinants of target spin. Which is correct?

    Pat Ireland
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Pat,

    If there was no friction between the arm and the target there would be little or no target spin. The machine would then be throwing unstable targets. HMB
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Remington 3100 machines had a short arm and less spin than hand set targets.
    they threw a target with not much spin, sort of a "Knuckle ball".

    Pat traps have a long arm, but in the interest of longevity the material is a little harder than regular Neoprene. They do spin the target well because of the length.

    Both length and friction are part of the equation. Arm speed is of little consequence since you have to make the distance.

    HM
     
  4. buzzgun

    buzzgun Member

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    Oboy...
     
  5. 1 ounce

    1 ounce TS Member

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    i think both length and friction.that is why the wind bothers the targets more of some of the new machines than the old winchester because the arm and plate are seperate and the bird slides on the plate before it startes to take on spin so you get less rpms on the bird. gary
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Pat, you need to sleep longer, rather than laying awake with such heavy thoughts burdening your delicate thought process. I agree with your premis that the relationship of speed of the arm, plus the length thereof,plus the material of the rail, should equal the spin rate. Shoot well, Bob
     
  7. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Arm speed and friction between the arm and the target is what I believe to have the most influence also Pat.

    I don't have any graphs but willing to try to prove my point at a gun club and also willing to be shown by others why this is not correct.
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately if you change the arm speed you will also change the flight path, and either go beyound or not make the stake. Yes, it will change the RPM but for shooters this is not a factor since the flight path of the target is legislated.

    HM
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    HM- How can the length of the arm have a significant affect on spin? Allowing for a little slippage as the arm begins to move, the target will rotate less than two times as it travels down the rail.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Ed Y

    Ed Y TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    So, does this mean that longer is better?

    Ed Yanchok
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    ...and. Pat, "at launch" the targets are going the same speed. But targets on short arms have traveled _less distance_ and the only way you can get equal speed over less distance is with more acceleration. And the only way you can get more acceleration is by supplying more force. And friction is directly related to force, and so, if the arms are equally "grippy" the short arm should provide less slippage and so _more_ spin.

    (With the exception cited by Barry Roach on a recent thread, where for doubles the first, short PAT Trap arm left to little room for right hand targets to get enough spin for stability.)

    Neil
     
  12. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    I'd venture to guess that condition of the rubber on the arm and its ability to generate friction between it and the pigeon has greater effect on the pigeon than length.

    The old W-W V1524 hand-sets always got a good sanding by a 2x4 block with sheetrock sandpaper before the shoots and they threw great targets.

    Now, it's harder to do the sanding with the Pats, and others, but arm condition is paramount.

    Length is still important too.

    Whiz
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Pat, If a shorter arm worked just as good, they would make them that way. NO one puts more material into a product than necessary.

    The longer arm is rotating the target for a little longer time/distance, and spin has to be more pronounced because of it. Those 4100's with the short arms had very little target spin.

    HM
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    But HM- With doubles the left bird travels quite a bit less along the arm than the right bird and both seem to be stable.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    ...even when they switch positions on the arm so fast you can hardly see it.

    Neil
     
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