1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Target Setting.....The T-Bar.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Barry C. Roach, Jan 24, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,209
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Lately I've seen folks advocating the use of the T-bar as an important component in setting consistent targets.

    This is in no way pointed at any one club as I've seen the same problem from Illinois to Arizona at many clubs..............A couple of weeks ago I was shooting at a big club and during the week we had several traps that were off center by quite a bit. The height of the targets varied greatly from trap to trap (actually the first trap was about right, the second very high, the third back to about right and the last very high again. I estimate that there was at least 10 ft. difference between the highest to the the lowest on those four traps. This was especially evident on traps reset after a doubles event.

    I think this has become a bad habit, born out of the absence of using the T-Bar to set target height. You have to center the trap every time you reset targets whether after a doubles event or from day to day and the T-Bar forces the setters to center the trap. The Pat traps have lulled us into thinking that all you have to do is take some spring off and flip the double/singles selector, check the speed with the speed gun and you're done. The T-Bar takes some more time and uses a few targets more but has to be used.

    We've made rules for speed............ now we need to make it mandatory to center the traps it seems.
     
  2. yakimaman

    yakimaman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    2,738
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    My club uses the T bar to confirm adjustments prior to every event. Don't hear any complaints on targets there.

    rm
     
  3. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    I think it still requires a height limit.

    Singles targets shall be thrown not less than 49 yards nor more than 51
    yards. Distance measurements are on level ground in still air.

    Targets shall be between 8 feet and 10 feet high, when 10 yards from Point B. The recommended height is 9 or 9 1/2 feet.

    The height at a point 10 yards from Point B is to be understood to mean height above an imaginary
    horizontal straight line drawn through the post and Point B. (See Diagram
    II) (See also the alternative to setting by distance - setting by speed - in
     
  4. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,209
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    That's right guys........but it's not done everywhere like it should be.
     
  5. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    4,004
    Location:
    GEORGIA
    Our club uses the T bar on every trap before the start of every event.
    We're working on a setup for measuring the right bird of doubles for height as well. Doubles height seems to vary much more than singles targets do.

    Shooters need to insist on having targets T barred for a consistent 9-10 foot target. Some shooters will complain and want them changed, put the T bar on them and if it's within spec, shoot'em or withdraw. The practice of following a squad down the line and resetting the targets per their request shouldn't be allowed.
     
  6. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Messages:
    17,211
    Location:
    IL(The gun friendly Southern Part)
    Barry,

    The only club I can think of in this area that still uses a "T-Bar" is Edwardsville Gun Club. I'm certain you have shot there. They always seem to throw good targets there. I have personally shot some of my best scores there.
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,434
    When setting targets you have to use your brain. If there is a tail wind set the targets a little higher than normal and if there is a head wind set them a little lower than normal.

    We use a hoop to set the targets. No wind we st them in the center of the hoop. With a tail wind at the top and with a head wind we set them at the bottom of the hoop. HMB
     
  8. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,542
    I use a hoop like HMB. Very easy. Now setting the field from left to right is a different story. I do have a Pat-Trap with the 4 1/4"? bar for two hole targets. The machine was put in correctly so left to right should never change, unless someone unbolted and moved the machine or slid the bar I guess. Dave T.
     
  9. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Chicago area
    Barry -

    I'm curious what you mean when you say "center the trap". Do you mean so that you can make sure that left and right angles are equal?

    We have Pat Traps (the new style), and as far as I know there is no way to "center" the trap. When we set targets for singles we turn off the oscillator and manually move the trap to the center position, then when complete turn the oscillator back on.

    The travel from left to right is controlled by limit switches on the front of the machine, and those can be moved to adjust the left and right travel to make angles wider or narrower. As far as I know there is no way to set those switches to make sure the travel from center is equal on both sides (aside from throwing targets and visually verifying).

    Our Pat traps were delivered with a "2 hole" bar installed, it's a small piece of metal that goes between the left/right limit switches that makes sure the travel is the equivalant of a 2-hole target.

    Scott
     
  10. KIRKS AUTO

    KIRKS AUTO Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    122
    I agree with Barry. The "T" bar is one of the clubs best and easiest tools to use. It can help keep shooters shooting at the club. I really think that every time a squad wants a reset,the t-bar should be used as a guide, both that squad and the next squad can see what is hapening to the targets.

    And the first 100 I broke in dbls was at Edwardsville on a day that Barry set the dbls! Kirk
     
  11. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,542
    The Pat-Trap should be cnetered when first installed with the stations and the Trap house. Once that's done correctly not much else can go wrong unless people start sliding the bar around. Dave T.
     
  12. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,915
    Scott, You've got the right idea. I think that the late great Pat Ireland had the easiest or most common sense way to check on the PAT's settings. He used to stand and score from the left side of the field and then the right to try and get a judgement of what the extreme's were for that field. There is a lot to said for the convenience and accuracy of the turntable and numbered holes in setting targets.
     
  13. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Chicago area
    Bob -

    Thanks, I thought maybe there was some way to center the trap that I wasn't aware of. After we got our first Pat trap we commented that it would be handy to have a way to center the trap.

    Once we got ours setup we put a couple extra turns on the set screws that hold the left/right limit switches, just to make it extra difficult for someone to move them.

    One other thing I heard but didn't understand - was shooting at a club with Pat Traps and they were setting doubles. The guy setting watched a few pair and then radio'd to the guy in the house to "widen the angles". I didn't know you could do that on a Pat. I know there was an issue with some of the after-market doubles fingers that were throwing them too narrow, but I wasn't aware it was something that could be adjusted.

    Scott
     
  14. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,351
    Location:
    Indiana
    Scott, that bar, along with the limit switches can be moved to center the Pat trap throwing angles. I too, score from the angles to check the trap angles, thanks Pat. One of our new Pats threw three hole targets with the stock spacer bar, the other three threw two holers. I had to shorten the bar to make that trap the same as the others. Many clubs I go to throw straights from 1 & 5 and this is a three hole target, no problem, everyone shoots the same target. My point is sometimes a mechanical device does something different that it should and we have to "adjust" it.

    As far as I know, the only way to change the spread of a pair of doubles is to change the finger. There have been three doubles fingers to date, I think. The original Pat finger threw a wide pair. Bob Shultz came out with a finger to narrow them up. Pat came out with a replacement finger used at the 2007 Grand (??)and it threw really narrow doubles. A modification was issued to this new finger, you cut a chunk off of it I believe, to make the doubles legal or a straight from 1 1/2 and 4 1/2, just like the Shultz finger.

    I might be somewhat fuzzy on the dates, someone younger with a better memory can help out here.
     
  15. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Chicago area
    320090T -

    Yes, I'm familiar with the bar/limit switch settings and moving those to center the angles so they are the same width on both sides of the field, etc. I was really specifically asking if there was an automatic way to center the field. My interpretation of Barry's original post was that there was a way to do that, and I wasn't aware of anything other than the manual way.

    Scott
     
  16. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,351
    Location:
    Indiana
    No automatic way, just Pat Irelands way, works for me.
     
  17. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,390
    Problem is Pat isn't here anymore.

    I think it is an issue from time to time, a lot of targets can get thrown before you get someone that notices the field is off. It was nice to be able to put it in the center hole and adjust to get a straight-away, then put it back in the correct hole and you were almost set. Much tougher with a Pat, especially if we have to count on different people eyeballing targets from 1 and 5. I don't see a lot of real bad situations, but they are off sometimes.
     
  18. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,209
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    If there is no way to easily center a Pat trap then that is a deficiency in the machine. The trap machine of choice should "interpret" the rules of the game as written.

    Regardless of whether it's easy or not you have to be able to center a trap and the T-Bar is an easy way to mark that center point and forces the setters to set consistent target heights, as well.
     
  19. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,228
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    B,C.R., I agree with your thoughts! Some fields off center, some off center AND very high too! It pays to watch what the targets are telling you?

    Hap
     
  20. seitz647

    seitz647 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    174
    Pat traps could be centered real easy - Pat should make a bar that will center the trap - you could put it in and know the travel was correct - either that or get the ruler out - i've never seen anyone center traps at BIG SHOOT - hieght and speed yes - anyway then you'll find out the field is off or the houses are cocked, You also have to remember that parts wear out and will cause improper target flight, and usaully no one says anything about it - it should be brought to someones attention -

    Remember there just clay targets , fragile as eggs, and break easily if your shot pattern is in the right spot- John Mroczka
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

trap target t-bar 9 foot