1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

target resetting during ATA events

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by BigM-Perazzi, May 22, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    Page 15 of rule book.

    7. Should a trap be throwing targets that, although not necessarily illegal, appreciably vary from trap to trap, any shooter may request that management reset the trap even though prior squads have shot. The final decision as to whether or not a trap is to be reset will be made only by shoot management

    ( I keep a copy on my Droid)

    HELL, Micbigan
     
  2. Tech Writer Jeff

    Tech Writer Jeff Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    153
    And yes, that means any member of the squad can request a reset at any time during a sub-event . . . a request in the middle of a sub-event is OK.
     
  3. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    One of the Top 10 worst rules written.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  4. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,788
  5. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    The target setting parameters are well defined height,distance, and minimum angle.


    Why would you ever permit a field to be re-set if the targets meet those parameters???


    Jerry Hauser
     
  6. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,788
    I have no problem with the rule since it leaves the final decision to shoot management. JMHO
     
  7. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,390
    Well, just because a target is within legal parameters, that doesn't mean it isn't a lousy target in comparison to the other fields. The rule is good in giving discretion to management to make sure they throw good targets. Just because the 1st squad out doesn't have a clue what the targets should look like doesn't mean everyone else should be stuck with them.

    The contra is that if just about the entire field has shot without complaint, that might indicate the targets aren't that bad and management wouldn't change them for some whiners.

    There are two sides to the issue. The ATA rule is fine, it's breakdowns at the local level that cause the problems.
     
  8. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    The problem with the rule is targets get changed all the time based one shooters preference. It wastes time and money, and gives the perception to some that the sport is rigged.


    The idea that "shoot management" is going to tell a customer no is laughable.


    The rule should be changed to permit targets to be re-set only if they are outside the target setting parameters.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  9. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,193
    870 is right on. At small clubs, to mention a questionable target is usually met with disdain, if not ridicule. This is not to mention the fact that the target setter might take it personally, if you ask for a change. If the target setter's attitude is such, then you might as well just go piss against the wind. The result is the same.
     
  10. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,788
    "You pay for em, you should be able to put em anywhere you want em, as long as they are legal."

    What if all 5 people on the squad want them in a different place? Talk about a recipe for chaos, fortunately the ATA doesn't leave the decision to whiney trapshooters or no shoots would ever get completed.
     
  11. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,260
    This is a great source of heartburn if you are one of those guys involved with target setting. Even on a good day with no wind you will get complaints and requests to change the targets. On the nasty high wind days the targets are just plain wild and no amount of adjustment attempts will set things right.

    The really interesting thing is that the really good shooters are the not the ones insisting on target changes - they just stand up there and wack em no matter what.
     
  12. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    OK, I'll bend a little on this one. If the targets are appreciably different from trap to trap some change might be necessary. Unfortunately, some shooters think they must change every trap to their personal liking costing the club time and money. At some clubs certain banks are perfectly set for favorite sons while others suffer-I refuse to mention names. I see it anymore as variety is the spice of life as the wait for a trap mechanic on the less favored banks can be real long!!
     
  13. Donm

    Donm Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    873
    Flalagart. I think you hit the nail on the head. Well put. When I'm running a shoot I often walk the trap line and tweek the targets as the day goes on. Most of the time no one knows I even made any changes. But that way as the wind changes the target don't change much.
     
  14. DONNE

    DONNE Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    297
    What FlaLagarto said!
     
  15. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    The rule states targets are legal when set between 8 to 10 feet in elevation today and "suggests" a setting of 9-1/2 feet as ideal.

    This rule was changed from the old one that legal targets should be set between 8 to 12 feet in elevation. The old 10 foot setting allowed for a headwind or a tailwind with that 2 foot variance!

    Here's the problems I've seen happen on different ranges when it comes to setting targets. Squads loving high targets can have them depending on who's asking? That, without regard for what the "rule" says they should be in order to remain within the setting parameters. The height rule is being violated on a whim and it's costing all shooters since it costs clubs more to continually change these settings to suit the customers? Not to mention the backing up of squads waiting their turn? It's no wonder prices are continually on the rise, it costs clubs more to cater to whims.

    Why was the rule changed to 8 to 10 feet in the first place? Just another change for the sake of change that was but another bad idea for the sport of trap shooting.

    Hap
     
  16. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,347
    Location:
    Indiana
    At the 2011 Grand American Handicap I watched two squads in front of ours shoot and the targets looked fine. The next squad came out and had the targets raised. I asked the target setter what was wrong with them and he said "Stockdales squad likes a tall target with lots of face" and the setter followed them down the line and raised every trap for them. We had them put back down to what everyone else had shot and they were fine. I don't know who Stockdale is but he received settings different from others because they liked "taller targets".
     
  17. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,988
    BigM-Perazzi quoted the rule in the first reply upthread and IMO that's the way it should be, any shooter can request a reset at any time and it's up to management's discretion whether or not to reset 'em. If the trapsetter/s would grow a pair and not let the fussy old geezers intimidate them there wouldn't be any problem.

    John C. Saubak
     
  18. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    John


    This rule puts shoot management/clubs in an awkward position. They may not want to change a trap for good legitimate reasons but don't want to risk making one of their customers/shooters mad.


    That problem could easily be solved if the ATA would eliminate the current rule and replace it with one that states the only time a trap can be adjusted is if shoot management determines the targets do not meet the target setting requirements..



    Jerry Hauser
     
  19. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    Jerry, wouldn't that just be restating what's already written???
     
  20. Two Dogs

    Two Dogs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,541
    I pay to shoot good legal targets, and that's what I expect.

    Some people on here don't know what a legal target looks like...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

when do you change targets in ata