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Target Panic - be glad you're not an archer.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by JPettengill, Jul 31, 2008.

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  1. JPettengill

    JPettengill TS Member

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    I personally think that what archers call "Target Panic" is the same thing that golfers call "Yips" and Shooters call "Flinch". I shot competitive archery until I began to target panic so bad I could not even draw the bow. I took up trapshooting and soon learned to flinch. The release trigger helped the flinch in trap shooting, the release aid helped in archery. When the game demands perfection, the fear of missing causes, target panic, flinching, the yips, or what ever you call it. I'm going to invent a release putter. I don't think recoil is much of the cause for flinching, bows don't beat you the face and shoulder, putters don't hurt anything but your pride. We have to learn the proper mental attitude and concentration routines. The Germans and Italians were able to ban release triggers in shooting International Trap, and I'm working on pulling the trigger. I'm getting to where I don't flinch when shooting International Trap, much.
    Jim Pettengill
     
  2. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

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    the "special release" that Hunt refers to is called a back tension release - in essence the release is set to trigger automatically when the archer has achieved that perfect hold point and the shot fires by iteslef - archers refer to the triggering of a back tension release as a surprise - they don't know when it is going to go off.

    i don't use one but i have used blind baling as a method of knowing when the hold was right as opposed to focusing on the bulls eye and i believe this is the point trying to be made here.

    curing target panic essentially eliminates the trigger altogether - no pull, no release, it just goes off by itself.

    google target panic or back tension release - it's fun stuff.
     
  3. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    There is a cure for target panic. It is called "blind bale shooting" and it works. I have done it and it isn't much fun but it is effective.

    jim brown
     
  4. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Never suffered from target panic, and in fact never heard of it until now. I do, on the other hand, occasionally flinch without a release trigger, but only when I shoot trap.
     
  5. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Done that been there, quit shooting bow except a few big bucks over the years, never flinch or panic on game.
     
  6. ljutic231

    ljutic231 TS Member

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    If Bows and Arrows were really good we would be speaking Comanche now.
     
  7. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    jim brown you said "There is a cure for target panic. It is called "blind bale shooting" and it works. I have done it and it isn't much fun but it is effective." Jim I suggest to you if you have a true case of "target panic" blind bale shooting(I take this to mean bales with no target)will not cure the problem

    True target panic is as someone above said "The fear of missing" is brought on by the introduction of the target. Shooting with out the target allows the affected to see an improvement but if it is truly a case of "Target Panic" shortly after the target is placed back on the bale the TP will return.

    There are a couple of interesting things that happen. A friend of mine had TP so bad he could hit the scoring area of the target no more than 60% of the time. However if he was shooting at paper animal targets or free standing animal targets he was deadly scoring area hits were in the mid 90% range.

    Bob Lawless
     
  8. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried it Bob? Have you checked to see what "blind bale" shooting really is? Sometimes experience is more accurate than intuition.

    jim brown
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    jim brown I will let you be the judge I spent 15 years shooting in Archery tournaments. At one point I shot 7 days a week for 3 years Outdoors Indoors there is nothing pertaining to shooting a Bow that I haven't tried.

    When I shot(I stopped in 1987 for reason of my own)blind bale shooting was shooting at bales that did not have a target on them. What it means now I have no clue. At that time it was used to learn to shoot a release by surprise and diagnose target panic not cure it.

    Jim all I am saying is it might cure the beginning of target panic but in a case of full blown target panic it is the sight of the bullseye that triggers the shot and this is almost uncontrollable.

    One of the biggest cures for Target Panic is a device called a "Clicker" the device attachés to the bow and the arrow goes between the bow and the device which has a spring type tension. When the arrow is drawn past the end of the device it snaps against the bow and makes a clicking sound and after training makes the archer release.

    Regardless of all of that to answer your question first question Yes I have tried it. I have already answer the second question sufficiently I feel.

    I didn't reply to your post to be a wise ass or to flame you I was speaking from experience but your assumption that I was blowing smoke was uncalled for I think Jim that you are not the only person that has experience with multiple sports.

    BTW just in just in case you are interested(and I am sure you are not)I am also proficient in Bullseye Pistol,Rifle, and although I hate to say it Skeet. My advise to you would be not to assume!! You no why

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Bob,

    In the current world blind bale shooting is a regimen of shooting that starts with releasing with your eyes closed and progresses for thousands of shots usually taking over a month to complete. During that time you don't shoot any arrows except those prescribed in the drill. I have done it and it worked for me. I know others who have had success with it.

    If you used a "clicker" I "assume" you were involved with shooting finger release with a "non-wheel" bow. That is the only place I have seen a clicker used, usually in Olympic style shooting. The people who I know who have used blind bale shooting are all wheel shooters using releases. I don't know if it is effective for finger release. I usually shot wheel bows with back tension releases.

    You seem to have been quite active in shooting. Over the past 50 years I have competed in gallery rifle, position small bore, silhouette rimfire, silhouette high power, combat pistol (IPSC), bowling pins, field archery, spots archery, 3-D archery, sporting clays, and trap. If I had shot skeet I sure as heck wouldn’t say it on this forum. I guess at 67 years old I have pretty much seen the elephant as far as shooting goes.

    I just don’t appreciate being told I am full of s--- when I am trying to help somebody with a problem.

    jim brown
     
  11. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    It seems that no matter what kind of weapon you shoot, this old problem comes up in one way or another, usually given a different name, but it all boils down to one thing - fear of missing.


    And the clicker does nothing to cure it for archers. Many will tell you they never experienced TP until AFTER they started using one. Most archers have been using a clicker for a long time before developing TP, and one of the folk remedies actually consists of shooting _without_ a clicker for a while, just to re-train your brain away from anticipating the click and twanging one off.


    Blank bale shooting is used extensively by most all archers...there's not a single serious competitor who doesn't do it...but yet, TP is still the scourge that it is.


    Interestingly, I have switched over to a pure back-tension release in my compound shooting this year, to more accurately match the form I use with my recurve...and I do now believe it's a better way to shoot. I haven't developed TP yet, so I can't attest to the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of a BT release for that...but I definitely love the sensation of pulling through the shot and not knowing when it's going to go off.


    One thing that Terry Wunderle advocates, if you're a recurve shooter with TP problems, is doing a practice routine where you simply draw with an arrow, pull until the clicker goes off, and then...let the arrow down. Just to show yourself that you can step back from a potentially bad shot, without firing it.



    With the Olympics coming up, you will have a good chance to observe this sport, since TV coverage of the elimination rounds is usually much better than it is for firearm sports (Archery changed its format some years back to a head-to-head elimination bracket process, to speed things up and make it more dramatic for TV). Watch archers from different countries...see how long they hold the bow prior to shooting. The American & most western shooters seem to aim for a long time...the Koreans get those shots off quickly...sometimes I wonder if this has something to do with the TP equation (ie, not standing there until you get all wobbly).
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    jim brown you made a statement that I don't agree with(still don't)but at no time did I say or insinuate that you were full of Sh#$ or anything else

    "Jim I suggest to you if you have a true case of "target panic" blind bale shooting(I take this to mean bales with no target)will not cure the problem"

    If you are seeing this as a comment as to your interior content I think your way off base and believe by what you have said the you may be.

    You said "The people who I know who have used blind bale shooting are all wheel shooters using releases. I don't know if it is effective for finger release. I usually shot wheel bows with back tension releases."

    It seems to me that I said "At that time it was used to learn to shoot a release by surprise and diagnose target panic not cure it." to me that coincides with your above statement. I have never known of or heard of a release shooter that had TP(when I say release shooter I don't mean someone that just uses a release to shoot I mean one who shoots one correctly)

    So Jim I have one question. Who asked for help? I can't find anyone that asked for help. I did find someone who was reproducing an article about target panic. Now I may be incorrect about the help request never the less I repeat I could not find anything about it

    If you had a problem with my giving my opinion just say so don't say that I was belittling you I was simply giving my opinion just as you were.

    Yes I did shoot finger release and after five years of shooting fingers I switched to a release I don't know what everyone on here are referring to when they say "Back Tension" release but I have never shot a release that I didn't shoot with back tension.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Bob, it just means the release is set to "go" at a certain poundage above wherever you take the safety off...there is no trigger, nor any direct role for a hand muscle to play in firing the arrow. It's your back pulling against it that sets it off. Kinda neat stuff. Very similar to a "surprise break" trigger pull on a gun, except it's your back muscles doing it instead of your hand muscles. The sensation of drawing and firing the arrow with the same muscles is very hard to explain, and very cool to experience.
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    buzz-gun I am aware of just what back tension is and how it works. I will however say I was unaware that there is a release that does it without help from the shooter(no that can't be a correct statement)oh well. There was one at that time that was called the hydraulic it had a screw on the side that controlled the rate of by-pass that the oil inside was sent back to the reservoir which released the attaching mechanism to the string.

    When I learned to shoot a release we were taught that it was a mental process not a mechanical one, I learned on a trigger release, I can not remember the name of it but I can picture it in my mind. I learned to shoot it using back tension, contrary to popular belief it is possible to shoot a trigger release with back tension.

    I then graduated to a Stanislawski which we called the Stash. From what I can gather it was the predecessor to the Carters and the Zeniths and I sure there are a few more. One that came to mind at that time was the Check-it made by the same company that made Check-it sights.

    I more or less understand better now the differences when I shot back tension was a process know it seem to be a type of release aid. Things sure do change. Buzz do you shoot the bow now or you a dinosaur like I am? If you still shoot what do they shoot for a round now a days?

    When I shot we shoot basically 3 rounds indoors that is the PAA round or the NFFA indoor round and most of the bigger shoots like Cobo hall, Vegas and that type shot what we called a multi round. The target had rings valued from 10 to 1 Gold through white as they progress outward.

    It has been like a trip down memory lane for me. I am sorry that Jim got upset and took what I had to say out of context. I don't know what more I can say.

    Bob Lawless
     
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