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TARGET BREAKAGE

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by break25, May 14, 2008.

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  1. break25

    break25 TS Member

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    Trying to get an idea on the number of targets that are lost or broken
    (NOT LEGALY SHOT AT) during a shoot. Usually at the begining of the shoot, it's
    "LET'S SEE ONE". So that's one.

    Need.

    One man shooting 25. A squad of 5 shooting 25 each. A squad of 5 shooting 100 or 500 targets.
    Figuring bad machine set up, moving mikes and LOUD talkers.

    On a box of 135 how many are shot at

    I thought if I was vague on the subject title, it would get more hits and ideas.
    Some clubs must be using an amount to figure shoot costs.

    CHAZZ
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    That's why they put 135 targets in a case. 5 man squad x 25 targets = 125, 10 extras for viewing and breakage. HMB
     
  3. thomaslea1

    thomaslea1 Member

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    Don't want to change the focus of this, but wasn't one of the original reasons to "see one" to get set to get a count on the hand-set trap? The days of 'seeing one' seems to be past, except maybe for the first target of the day. Why waste targets?
     
  4. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    A decently trained trap person (puller/scorer or the name de jour) will turn off the microphones during moves and repositioning of the mics. That way there are no erroneous targets wasted. Doesn't always get accomplished though.

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  5. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    I'll admit to being type "A" and bit compulsive about organization and details, and nothing bugs me more at a shoot than seeing targets flying prior to a squad shooting and during post changes. Maybe target costs wouldn't be so high if clubs didn't throw so many that weren't being paid for?

    Scott
     
  6. break25

    break25 TS Member

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    We all know what shouuld be done (those that answered), but you are not always on THAT squad or reminding the name de jour to turn off the machine, so targets are wasted. How may times have we read about, loud talkers, mikes being moved while shooting, closing guns etc. These are the ones that are being lost.

    Don't know what the costs of targets in other areas are, but here in the Northeast,they are about $8.09 per case and that is because of the fuel charges. So it is ABOUT .06 per target.

    Trying to keep shooting costs down.


    CHAZZ
     
  7. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    I agree that on a normal day of trap, "seeing" a target before starting shooting is a waste (but it IS only 1 target). But I do see doing it if half way through the day, the weather decides to change and the wind picks up all of a sudden, then you would have an idea as to what the target would be doing. Josh
     
  8. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    I usually figure 10% loss due to seeing one and breakage or 13 per case. This amounts to 71¢ per case. Quite a loss but part of doing business.
     
  9. break25

    break25 TS Member

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  10. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse Member

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    At the Atterbury we seem, at Registered Shoots, to be wasting a few less than 10%. I have found overall, by the time you account for trap setting, especially setting doubles, we use up every one of that 10% extra targets, and then some.

    It is the practice targets where the wasted targets count up fast. That is exactly the reason why we will have the coin operated target counting system installed and in operation within the next 4 weeks.

    God bless our “Rabbit Thumpers”!

    Mark
     
  11. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Chazz, You haven't bought any lately. The voice calls have really driven the breakage up for everyone. Even trained scorers forget on occasion to shut the system off while changing stations. Most shooters don't seem to care about wasted targets it appears. Shoot well, Bob
     
  12. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    break25,

    to answer your question, out of a case of 135 a full squad would shoot at 125.

    But to your point. In my opinion the normal breakage would not be a significant cost to the overall shoot. Let's say a 4 trap club hosts a shoot and expects 10 squads of 16 & HCP and 5 doubles. They'll set all four traps for doubles, one looker per squad per trap. Assuming limited broken targets and few inadvertant targets the "breakage" should be less than two cases ($20). So over 125 entries that's .16 per 100 shot.

    Long shoot offs cost clubs WAY more than target setting and lookers.

    Automatic traps in my opinion have increased the breakage, but at the same time if properly managed, have reduced overall labor costs. Point, clubs can afford more breakage and still be more profitable (compared to handset traps).
     
  13. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    One year at the Grand after they first started using voice releases, you could look up and down the line when somebody was making an announcement over the loud speaker. Target after target was being thrown and nobody shooting because everybody would quit shooting until the announcer was finished.

    At our local club shooting practice I would say we would be lucky to get 4.5 rounds out of a box of clays. Gotta see one. Somebody is always closing the action of their guns and setting off targets. Somebody shoots an extra bird or 2, etc.
     
  14. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Bisi,

    If you're correct, and I no reason to believe you're not, your club needs to address the problem. That would work out to 4 or 5 extra targets per station, every station.

    Tom
     
  15. break25

    break25 TS Member

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    Today and yesterday, everybody shot. What were your experiences today on lost targets?

    Chazz
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    10% breakage has been the typical number cited for many years. If breakage due to handling, loading the machines, clearing the trap after a broken bird, setting the trap, observation birds (two for doubles), and errantly thrown birds are all considered, 10% loss seems a little low. A clean floor in a trap house at the beginning of a shoot has a lot of target debris on it at the end of a shoot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. break25

    break25 TS Member

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    THANKS PAT,

    CHAZZ
     
  18. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Just heading home from the MO state shoot. We shot for 6 days and the pullers were VERY good at turning off the CVR systems. I doubt that our squad used the 135 for the trap. I shoot post 1 and I look at one target prior to the round, mostly to see if the trap is on and the CVR system is on. Target waste is the least of our problems. $4.50 diesel fuel for the truckers and remember the targets are made from petroleum pitch so they are not going down soon.

    Bob
     
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