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Takedown System for Rifles.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by W.R.Buchanan, Jan 24, 2011.

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  1. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Guys I am searching for pictures of different takedown systems for lever action rifles.

    After searching the internet for many hours, I have come up with very little.

    I know that the Winchester rifle takedown system is very close to the M12 shotgun system, and am leaning towards producing this version.

    I want to convert several Marlin Lever Action Rifles to a takedown style system.

    I have looked at several current commercial systems like Wild West Guns system, and David Clay's system and have rejected them both as either too costly for what you get or literally not available. I was ready to send one of my guns to Alaska until I heard I was looking at $1400 for the complete job!

    Putting $1400 into a $300 generic gun is just not prudent. No way to ever recover the investment. I'd have a $1700 gun worth $500 at best.

    What I'd really like to see from this post are really good pictures of the Marlin Takedown system that was available in the early 1900's. I have pics of the complete guns but can't seem to find pics of the parts or the guns taken down so you can see what they were doing. If someone has a take down Marlin High Power rifle and could take it apart and snap pics of the fore-end block and takeup wedge, as well as the front of the receiver that would really help me.

    Good Pictures of any other takedown system for a threaded barrel rifle or shotgun would be much appreciated. In lue of actual pictures, direction to the actual source of the pictures would be much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance. This is a pic of what I am trying to do, it is a Marlin 1894 original in .44-40 cal with the takedown feature.

    Randy
    [​IMG]
    I want to do one like this off a current manufactured gun in .44 magnum.
     
  2. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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  3. walnutmaker

    walnutmaker TS Member

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    Randy, I used to do those back in the late 80's and early 90's but lost interest. Roger Renner did a story in Guns & Ammo back then and I got work out of it for over 10 years. Still have several Win 94's and a couple Marlins but I am so busy selling our new recoil system I just don't have the time. I believe there is a clip in Lever Action Legacy book or so I was told of my conversion.

    I'll bet if you could find the book it may show what we did and you could get a good smith to build one for you.

    Wish you luck! Phil Simms/ Prosoft recoil Systems
     
  4. loop02

    loop02 Member

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    I have an 1886 (i think) Marlin takedown rifle. You unscrew the magazine tube and pull it up about 1/2 ", and then unscrew the barrel, magazine and forend. They all stay together. The barrel has about an inch of coarse threads. I haven't looked at it in some time. It is in the safe at my Mom's house in Pa. I am in Kentucky. Not only takedown is a feature of that particular rifle, the gun price book puts it at around $4000.00 due to it's condition. It still has case colors on the receiver. I can get some photos when I visit next, if you are interested. It is not for sale, but you could look at it if you want. This gun has an octagon barrel, and a full length magazine. It is a .30/30. I researched the gun a little. They were made for big game hunters that lived in the east, and hunted out west. you could take the gun apart and put it in your suitcase, and take it on the train.
     
  5. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Keith: I'd like to look for sure. I'm really interested in the Marlin Factory takedown system. The guns are Marlins so if they had a good system then I'd like to duplicate it on newer Marlins. I can't make a decision until I actually get to see one either in person or see good pics of the parts.

    Phil Simms: The name of the book is 'Lever Action Legacy'? I'll look around and see if I can find a copy.

    I'm not interested in having someone do the conversion, I want to do it myself. I am a highly skilled machinist toolmaker and I can handle the physical work I just have to have a clear idea of what I want to do and that's where these different ideas come in.

    I'm trying to figure out what to do. I will figure it out eventually but if someone here has one of these guns and is willing to take good pics of the parts then it will help me scalp the idea and produce the parts necessary in a much more timely fashion.

    Randy
     
  6. Jimmyc

    Jimmyc TS Member

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    This sounds interesting. Please share your experiences when you do this. I think many would enjoy reading about it. I love working on guns and wish I knew more about machine work.
    Jimmy
     
  7. Trapshooter

    Trapshooter Well-Known Member

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    There was a gunsmith in Mass(I think) in the 1970's doing take down conversions. There was a story about it in the NRA mag back then. It was like the Winchester style, but more simple. There were full threads on the barrel, not interupt type.
    Hope this helps,
    Todd
     
  8. loop02

    loop02 Member

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    Randy... Maybe my rifle is a 1894. I don't remember. It looks like the one in your photo, except it has a longer barrel. It has a tang sight. My Uncles were collectors, and I got the gun when one of them died. I never really did much with it. Never shot it, I oil it once a year.
     
  9. rrrocketman

    rrrocketman Member

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    W.R. -- why don't you try contacting Dan Brumley at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody, WY? 307-578-4117 or danielb@bbhc.org. They have TONS of firearm information as well as factory drawings etc.

    Rich
     
  10. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Rich: Thanks for the tip but I already talked to Warren Newman of the Cody Museum. They don't have any drawings from Marlin. Apparently the Marlin Factory burned down around 1906 and everything that preceeded that was lost.

    Keith: if your gun is a pistol cartridge gun like 38-40 or 44-40 then it is an 1894, if it is a longer type round like 30-30 or 38-55 then it is probably a 1893 model. If it is in 45-70 or one of the mega large rounds then it is probably an 1895.

    The main difference in all of these guns is the length of the action and their ability to handle different cartridge lengths and power ranges. All look virtually identical except for the length. And they all function internally in exactly the same way. They are all just scaled up or down.

    Here is a pic of an 1893 in 38-55 cal.
    [​IMG]


    Here is a pic of an 1895 in 45-90 cal.
    [​IMG]


    My whole purpose here is to attempt to recreate these styles of firearms using newer Model 336 actions which are readily available on the used market. You can see how the take down feature would be a major plus addition to any of these guns.

    Both of the large caliber guns shown in the pics are takedowns as is the first one shown above.

    It kind of sets the gun apart from more common versions, as anyone who could afford a gun of this stature could also afford to travel, and thus the need for the takedown function. A matching gun case would have accompanied these guns also.

    Randy
     
  11. OldPshtr

    OldPshtr Member

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    Might try ChasJones@hughes.net. They have some schematics.
    Have a 1894 Win Rifle takedown. Works like a Mod 12.

    Doyal
     
  12. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Doyal: That email addy does not work, can you re-direct me?
     
  13. OldPshtr

    OldPshtr Member

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    That is all I have.

    Doyal
     
  14. ken1okie

    ken1okie Active Member

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    I don't especially care for the 1893 style takedown. It uses the interupted thread design and a lever that pivots to make an interference fit...if I remember correctly.
     
  15. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Ken1okie: Does the lever have threads in it, and act like a jamb nut?

    Or is it like a wedge that takes up the slack between the receiver face and the takedown plate mounted to the barrel/forened group?

    Randy
     
  16. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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  17. loop02

    loop02 Member

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    Randy... The interest in that gun got my interest up. I had my Mom get it out of the safe (she is 89) and she read the numbers with a magnifying glass. Marlin Firearms Company, New Haven Connecticut. Marlin Safety. It had 3 dates, Oct. 11, 1887, Apr. 2, 1889, and Aug. 1, 1893. It does have a lever between the receiver and barrel assembly. It is sort of a "u" shape. It goes from 1 side, down under the receiver and up the other side. It is contoured like the receiver. I think it stayed on the barrel assembly. It did seem like a wedge. You opened it before the gun would unscrew. I don't think it had interrupted threads, I think it unscrewed. But I could be wrong. I don't remember. If I get ahold of my nephew, I will have him take it apart and send me some photos. I am not going up there for a couple of weeks, and you've got my curiosity up.
     
  18. loop02

    loop02 Member

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    The thing that looks like a band around the receiver toward the forend in the photos is the lever. That is where it separates. The metal plate contoured like the receiver stays with the forend. As I think back, the lever stays on the receiver.( I think)
     
  19. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Loop: you're my new best friend. If you can get some good pics of the parts, it would really help my project. Take as many pics as you can from different angles in good outdoor light or flouresent light if possible. Also if you have some dial calipers, some measurements of the thicknesses of the different parts would help.

    If the lever is actually a wedge then a pic of the edge that shows the angle of incline of the wedge would help.

    A pic strait on into the forend section. A pic with the lever open as far as it will go. Also the receiver face, as I think mine have to be modified. Also a pic with the gun assembled from directly over the top of the receiver at the junction. This will show how much slack there is to be taken up by the lever.

    I see the lever as functioning in two possible ways. 1. either it has threads in it and operates as a jamb nut. So when you screw the two halves together, once you get it all the way into position you then seat the lever which jambs the foreend into the receiver. Kind of like the jamb nut on a current Savage rifle barrel.

    OR

    2. The lever is a wedge that takes up any slack in the threads by wedging between the forend plate and the front of the receiver.

    I am leaning towards the first way of doing it, as it seems more logical. But I really don't know, and can't tell by any pics I have seen.

    I can wait til you actually have the gun in your hands, none of what I'm doing will happen over night. I am very patient, especially when someone is doing me a favor.

    Thanks for all your help.

    Randy
     
  20. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    I can't believe of all the people on here we don't have any pictures yet.

    That is an awesome gun you have loop.

    Please post some pictures of your progress Randy. I like your idea!

    Nick
     
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