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T/C Encore frame serial number question???

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dan S., Apr 12, 2009.

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  1. Dan S.

    Dan S. TS Member

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    Does anyone know if the rules have changed? I was looking at a T/C Encore last Friday at a local gun store. I asked if the serial number on the frame was for a pistol or rifle and I got a very strange look. I responded by stating that when the Contender series caught my eye back in the late 70's, I was told that if you wanted to put a pistol barrel on a frame the frame needed to be a "pistol" serial number to comply with Federal law. His reply "As long as you don't break any laws with it, why would they check?" I don't prefer to roll that way. What are the current laws?? Have they changed (relaxed)? No theories please, only facts or quote the law code. Thanks for your help.
     
  2. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I have 2 T/C Contenders and i have never heard of such a law. I simply bought a rifle stock longer barrel and forearm and boom you got a rifle. As for the law i think it refers to max barrel length on a pistol. When you exceed a certain barrel length on the frame with the pistol grip on it it becomes illegal. This is how i was explained the rule. I have hunted with this setup and have been spot checked by the game wardens with never a word. I believe any barrel over 16" is what they consider a saw'd off rifle if it has the pistol grip. Hopefully i didn't make this even more confusing but this was my take on the subject.
     
  3. Dan S.

    Dan S. TS Member

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    Same law that applies to the AR15 "receiver". There are companies that make pistol length barrels for the receiver. With that serial number, you can use the pistol grip from the stock position with only the spring tube or one of the more elaborate gas tube systems. Get caught with a setup like that on a "standard" rifle serial number frame and you are in trouble.
    I considered the fact that maybe being a single shot in the Encore, they overlook that rule, and who in their right mind would hold up a store with a single shot, but still, I would like to hear the facts. I wonder if you are aware of the "short barrel rifle law. Here is a copy of the law in Arizona.
    "It is illegal for a person to possess, obtain, receive, sell, or use a short-barreled rifle or shotgun, except for a peace officer engaged in official duties."
    And"(8) The term 'short-barreled rifle' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as
    modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches."
    So what is the difference with a T/C with a rifle stock and pistol barrel? Is it the single shot action? Where is the clear definition located?
     
  4. cal_1

    cal_1 TS Member

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    I don't believe it matters either but veru interested in the answer as I have seen a factory made 10 inch 410 pistol barrel and always wondered how that was legal?
     
  5. Old Texas Marine

    Old Texas Marine Member

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    T/C had it in their literature once, I believe, that the ATF put out a ruling that as long as the short (less than 16" for rifle or 18" for shotgun) barrels were not mated (actually assembled) to the receiver ALONG with the shoulder stock the owner was not in violation of the NFA of 1934. Call T/C and ask. Great folks, even if they have strange accents.

    I am almost positive there is no such thing as "pistol" s/n vs. "rifle" s/n. I only have one Encore and no pistol length barrels and only one rifle stock.

    T/C is the source for the straight skinny.

    HBT
     
  6. Dan S.

    Dan S. TS Member

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    OTM....That would make sense to me also as your description would prevent the short barrel rifle scenario. Also, the same scenario exists with the AR15. That is you can own the parts for the pistol (ie short barrel) just don't get caught putting on your rifle receiver. I will take your advice and contact T/C and see what they say.
     
  7. Bob_K

    Bob_K Well-Known Member

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    All T/C Encore frames are manufactured as pistol frames to start with.
     
  8. bill1949

    bill1949 Well-Known Member

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    OTM has it right, do not put a rifle stock on the receiver with a pistol barell...Bill
     
  9. ClaySmoke

    ClaySmoke Member

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    This subject causes major confusion when trying to define what is meant by the ATF regulations. Technically, if the frame was originally built as a rifle, it is unlawful to attach a pistol length barrel and grips to the frame, thus manufacturing a pistol. For further reading on this topic, click on the link above that deals specifically with this issue and it's legality. Garrett
     
  10. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    Cal 1...if the 10" .410 was rifled and originally made as a handgun it is legal. A smoothbore with a barrel less than 18" is illegal, period.

    Years ago, when the contender came out, Walter Craig in Selma, AL, had a Brazillian mfg make some cut down shotguns with scratches int he bore as pistols. This enraged the ATF and they pressured TC to quit making the combo barrels for a while. Finally relented and now Cobray and others are making more of these little "snake guns".
     
  11. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah what he said.
     
  12. Dan S.

    Dan S. TS Member

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    Clay Smoke...I'm with you on this one. People can say what they want,but a second frame set up strictly for "the other use" is the smartest in light of the consequences of not doing that. Thank You for providing the URL to back up what you say. People will say "What are the chances of getting caught?" to which I say >.0001% is too much for me. I don't like graybar motels. Big period. Thanks.
     
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