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SW GRAND --- Handicap Scores & Punches

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by grunt, Apr 23, 2007.

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  1. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    DB Bill,People not playing the money has been going on for some time. Nothing new.
     
  2. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, how do we address it?
     
  3. jeffprigge

    jeffprigge Active Member

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    start pouring more concrete !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  4. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    See, I told you guys it's easier to shoot the further back you are. Now you see why nobody ever takes reductions. AJ
     
  5. Dennisw

    Dennisw Member

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    What was the percentage of shooters at the SW Grand that were 27 yard shooters. If I had to guess i would bet there were more 27 yarders than any other yardage, which would stand to reason why there were more good scores from the 27 yard shooters
     
  6. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    ATA trap shooting is the only sport I know of on this planet that competes for money and trophies on a regular basis and DOES NOT have a professional division. In my opinion, the ATA has no vision for the future...and I think the proof is evident when their guidance built the largest shooting complex in the world and stopped at the 27 yard line.

    MR
     
  7. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    Dennisw, take a look at the finals in the Grand American, us two mid-yard shooters and the rest were 26 & 27. I know we may not have had as many Kentucky shooters as normal, but what was the percentage of shooters at the Grand that were 27 yard shooters vrs short yard? AJ
     
  8. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

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    I reason there are so many good scores broke from the 27 is because most of the same people that breaks them good scores from the 27 do not have to punch a time clock 2 times a day in other words they can afford to take off work or just travel for the shooting season and make money while being on the road.

    When a short yardage shooter was to do good then he is slammed for being a sand bagger but in real life most of them can only shoot the week end and most of the times they donate but every once in awhile they will hit a hot streak but still no match for the every day traveling to shoot to shoot 27 yarder.

    Foghorn
     
  9. Tom Strunk

    Tom Strunk Well-Known Member

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    Here are my thoughts on why the 27 yard shooters win more than any other yardage group.

    First- They are better athletes, not every person excels in any sport, golf, tennis, baseball ect. They have better hand - eye coordination, and reflexes.

    Second- They have more desire to achieve, they are not willing to accept a poor score as easily, they never give up.

    Third- They have spent more time and money practicing and going to the larger shoots where the pressure is greater that the normal less attended smaller shoots. They work at it. They know where to hold the gun and they know where to look for the target. They know what do to when the wind comes at your face or from behind. It takes time and a lot of work to find out WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

    Forth- They have the best equipment that they can afford and know how to trick it up and keep it maintained.

    Fifth- They know how to squad, with the right people that will make them work hard not to get beat by their squad members. They also squad for the best time of day to shoot.

    Sixth- They expect to win when they arrive. Positive thoughts always. They have done their homework. They know what color lenses to wear. They know what shells they prefer and have brought their own or know the club has what they need.

    Any good shooter can make it there, the biggest problem I see is people that arrived on the 27 yard line, not being able to handle it, and refusing to take a reduction. To much ego. For the life of me I could never understand why someone thinks shooting 70's and low 80's from the 27 is acceptable, as long as they are on the 27. If you can't retain a 90 plus avg. from the 27 you should take a reduction to make you more competitive.

    Most people need to get coaching from people like Phil Kiner, Leo Harrison III, Harlan Campbell, Daro Handy, Nora Ross, Kay Ohye and others. I believe starting off on the right foot is very helpful to a long and pleasant trap shooting career/hobby.

    Tom Strunk
     
  10. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Like Tom says, "anyone can make the 27 yard line with some effort but most can't handle it". I'd say "they are handling it as the system was designed". Unfortunately, the guys who mastered the 27 are no longer adaquately handicapped!!
     
  11. AZ

    AZ Member

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    perfect explaination Tom
     
  12. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    What Tom doesn't tell us it's not that difficult to shoot 1,000 targets from the 27 and get that reduction. It's also just as easy to pop out that occasional 96 or 97 and move right back to the yardage you couldn't previously handle. Just slap that big "L" right back on your forehead as most of us will never average in the mid nineties from the 27. That's what it takes to be competetive with the "big dogs" and that's what makes the system so unfair!!
     
  13. Tom Strunk

    Tom Strunk Well-Known Member

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    Unfair ?? I don't think so.

    It' an opportunity. Look at the various sports out there, all of the best started at the beginning, got motivated, worked very hard, and achieved.

    Ricky Carmichael in motocross, Jeff Gordon in NASCAR, Tiger Woods in golf. None of these champions started at the top they all saw something they wanted and became a student of the game. Desire and hard work is what it takes to get to the top of any sport.

    When you are thinking "it's unfair" you are excusing losing. Get better. I'll see you at the shoot off.

    Tom Strunk
     
  14. washandwear

    washandwear Member

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    27 yd is pro class. And as long as they shoot for their own trophy/money (no high gun only money) then it is okay with me until I get to the 27 (if ever). The 27 yard shooter is the one who is at a disadvantage since there is a mix here of very very good (who technically should be at the 35 or 40 yard line)and good shooters who work hard to stay at the 27.
     
  15. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    DB Bill, I'll say Kiners idea definetly has meritt but there are alot of other factors involved.

    This is a traditional sport and even though many complain of changes needed, many many more don't want them.

    As for the money, it started dewindling back in the late 70's. My belief is that shooters started realizing just how little it cost to shoot a 4 day state tourney if only targets were shot without options. Also todays shooter would rather go to the local coffee shop on Monday morning and tell of the big score he broke on Sunday rather than a score of 92 that won him $150.

    The distance increase for the super stars won't work till enough concrete is poured that equipment failure reduces the scoring. Personally I don't want to beat Leo, Kay, Phil, etc because they couldn't compete at their yardage because of this.

    The professionl tourwas tried in 80 when several of us developed an org inwhich we contributed money to get started and at the end of two shoots the org was going broke. It should however be possible provided the firm was hired to generate some type of funding to generate a pro tour but it seems that no one wants to approach the option.
     
  16. K-80 Jim

    K-80 Jim TS Member

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    DB Bill, I think your addressing the wrong end of the problem. Don't you think there's more of a problem with target management in the lesser yardage groups. Are you suggesting we punish the skilled shooters or those who have worked hard to perfect their ability? I hope not because that has a sort of socialist sound to it comrade shooter. Would you rather be beaten by Tiger Woods or a sand bagger? I think your idea of how many people shoot (well) from the 27 is a little off as well.

    I've often wondered what the field of shooters would look like if there were no purses. I work a job to make money, I shoot for fun.

    Shoot well, it's not about the money!

    Jim


    [​IMG]
     
  17. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    Why do the 27 yarders win? #1, they've invested the time and money to get to that yardage and have learned a few things along the way. #2, THEY PRACTICE. You don't get to, or stay at, that yardage without lots of practice.

    The guys at shorter yardage who complain about not having a chance, probably only shoot 2000 handicap birds a year (practice and ATA), and then they wonder why the long yardage guys are stomping them. If you want to win at handicap, shoot more of it!

    Michael
     
  18. RLSS

    RLSS TS Member

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    If every person that shoots trap worked as hard as __________, at improving and maintaining their game, then shooters who shoot like___________, would be a dime a dozen.

    And you know what really proves our collective laziness is that shooter ____________, for a very, very, modest fee will tell you what needs to be done, and how to do it, but we still are just looking for new ways to bring shooters ____________, back to our level.

    There is a reason that these guys win. They work at it, and leave no doubt in your mind, at times, it is or has been at some point, a lot of work.

    Just like everything else in life, the harder you work, the luckier you get.

    RLSS
     
  19. RLSS

    RLSS TS Member

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    DB Bill,

    I am sure it has been examined at length, the problem is what is there to be done that is fair.

    I am glad to see that you recognize that this great lifetime sport offers people the opportunity to get as little, or as much out of the game as they choose.

    That is the key, it is a choice. I see many shooters who shoot for a multitude of reasons, and for the most part they all enjoy it.

    Those who want rewarded for choosing to put forth less than a championship effort, will continue to be unhappy.

    RLSS
     
  20. trap72

    trap72 Member

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    HELLO TOM STRUNK,
    I agree with your post 100%. Long time, no see!


    Ernie Hooks.
     
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