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SUVEY HAD 2849 RESPONSES 7.30am 7/15-closes 7/20

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Phil Kiner, Jul 11, 2010.

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  1. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to all that have participated

    Answers have generated some questions that I had not thought about so:

    I may do a second prior to the Grand
    I will release the reaults via my blog on trapandfield.com sometime preliminary week of the grand

    I am going to close the survey Monday July 20 12.00pm MDT so that I will have time to prepare report for Grand
     
  2. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Another great idea Phil!!! Thanks for your attempt to do something constructive for our organization/sport too!! Hap
     
  3. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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  4. Vince McNamara

    Vince McNamara Member

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    Phil

    Can you post the results of your survey. Thanks.

    Vince McNamara
     
  5. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    I will make results public when the survey closes (which I promised and will keep)

    I do not/will not release results while survey is open as this has the potential of biasing results.
     
  6. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Phil,

    I applaud your effort to collect data in regards to the questions asked on the survey. However, there are going to many problems with the data that is generated from it.

    First -- this is quite possibly one of the most confusing surveys I have ever taken. And as a registered pharmacist, that is saying a lot. Our profession is constantly bombarded by surveys (usually put together by pharmacy students for school projects) that I will fill out about once to twice a week. You left multiple choices open for way too many questions, some questions were not clear in their intent (perhaps this was by design), some questions were asked more than once (and before someone says that this is common in surveys, yes it is, but the questions were not written in a way that "double checks" the survey taker's answers).

    Second, and possibly most importantly -- there was no "lock out" for people that had already taken the survey. For this kind of survey to carry any weight with the ATA, this must be implemented. There is nothing to stop someone to submit the same responses to the survey over and over again on the same computer. Also, someone who is not an ATA member and/or doesn't even shoot trap could fill out the survey. Thus, the results will be called into question as they can very easily be skewed. Asking for the ATA number and DOB of the individual filling out the survey will making it harder, but not impossible, to skew the results in such a fashion.

    Again, I applaud the effort and the time you have put into this. As someone who has written only a handful of surveys (and usually 4-5 question ones at that), I know how difficult they can be to write. These questions need to be asked and data needs to be collected. If you would like any help on future surveys, please don't hesitate to send me a PM -- I will send you my contact info.

    Respectfully,

    John Voliva, R.Ph.<br>
    Ex-Officio<br>
    Indiana Trapshooters Association<br>
     
  7. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    So. East corner PA
    Just took the survey, thanks for your efforts (and great shooting DVD)

    My humble thoughts. Perhaps a follow up survey including the total number of targets a shooter shoots during the year with wins (reg. and non-reg.) would be more accurate. Also the totals shot in previous years vs. now. More clear picture of who shoots and wins.

    Reference to distances shooters travel; Grand, Satellite Grands, State Shoots etc. Past and current. Reasons could be categorized.


    Opinions on expenditures for ATA officials such as their income. As I understand current status, they receive travel expenses etc. plus a lucrative income. How about basing their income on par with the average shooter?; if it is a position of honor and they receive other percs as well. I hear shooters complain of rising fees charged at shoots, yet those incomes keep climbing. Survey could ask annual income and whether retired.


    Opinions on current HCap system seem to be arising over winners and yardages. I believe it stems from a larger view based on those who can and do vs. the "average guy". From the beginning at my first State Shoot attended (not PA) I saw that there was an "insider" group who got priorities in squadding re: time and banks. So it is, and so some observe and choose to attend a local shoot rather than an ATA shoot. From it's description and location, the new Grand facility appears to have been built for those with motor homes and plenty of $. So it is, but so may the attendance reflect such a change. With the economy it may have been a prudent decision, perhaps there were few options. It may also reflect the declining attendance in general as the "golden shoots" are now out of reach for the average shooter. Thus, why go to a local ATA shoot. The attendance yesterday at a typically large two day ATA shoot was abysmal, a mere shadow of the past.

    I see the ATA as consisting of three primary groups. The top flight, those who had a good experience and results from the beginning, and / or worked at it until they are around A > AA or AAA / 25 > 27 yds. and shoot frequently on a weekly basis. The central group who has shot for years, goes for enjoyment, and fill the middle rungs of the yardage and class assignments. They may not have, nor ever develope the skills to be a top shooter; but they so aspire. The third being the peripheral group who are newcomers and / or those who take or leave shooting based on other factors. It seems, to me, the middle group sees the whole system revolving more and more around the top end. Thus the Handicap grumbling. I accept things as they are, but I am not the one lining the pockets of those who play all the options.


    Looking forward to the results and the ensuing debates.


    JT
     
  8. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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  9. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    jevoliva - your pm is blocked
    AND fwiw one response per ip address
     
  10. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Hey Phil, just remember that when it comes to the EC, no good deed will go unpunished...LOL!

    Curt
     
  11. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    Phil,

    That's odd -- don't know why that is occurring.... nobody on my blocked list... oh well.. sent you a test PM...

    I stand (slightly) corrected -- I did access the survey from the same computer... however, I filled it out the first time at work on my laptop and then took the laptop home and was able to start the process again... 1 submission per IP address explains that.... same computer, different place.

    Curt -- me thinks Phil ain't skered of the EC (yes, I know that is not spelled correctly -- that's how you say "scared" this close to Kentucky! -- joking, of course)

    John
     
  12. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    Phil ain't skered a nobody...
     
  13. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Curvy, that's just one word: "skeredanobody"...<;-)
     
  14. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    It's spelled "skeered" in these parts...as in "ain'taskeeredofnuttin"

    Curt
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    . . . and vise-versa. I'm sure everyone on the EC will be interested in the results of Phil's survey.

    Neil
     
  16. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    The ec and chc members are very vindictive however, Phil is too well known and too highly regarded for the ec to try anything. JRM
     
  17. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    JRM, You must know something we don't to make such an ignorant statement.
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Remember, it's the BOD which has the final word in anything the ATA does or does not do. I expect the the results of Phil's poll will be spread around the Delegates' locker room as a written report and will form the basis of many interesting and important conversations.

    Neil
     
  19. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    Bob Hawkes, perhaps I do know something you don't know. That would make your statement and insult, ignorant.
     
  20. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    Thought i heard this somewere? CHANGE
     
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