1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Sustain a lead, or poke and hope?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by crusha, Nov 27, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. crusha

    crusha TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,762
    "Poke and Hope" sounds like a term invented by a sporting clays shooter writing one of those odious articles for Shotgun Sports (you know, "Chokes and Loads for Those Pesky Rabbit Targets," etc....)...not really a fair characterization of what trapshooters do, which is more of an accelerate follow-through. "Hope-and-poke," however...now that's a skeet term if I ever heard one...
     
  2. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,061
    I have never been able to sustain a lead. The more time I spend trying to perfect the relationship between the target and the barrel the better the chances become that I will move my head on the stock and miss. I focus on the front of the target and as I see the barrel passing under the target I fire.

    Morgan
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    I never think about leading a target or when to shoot the target. I think about keeping my head into the stock and seeing the target. My gun knows how much lead it needs and it knows when to shoot. I only have to stay into the gun and let the gun do what it knows it is supposed to do.

    Let your gun shoot the target.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. lumper

    lumper TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,586
    See the target ... be the target ... cover the target ... BLAMMO ... crush the target ... reload and do it all again.

    Its instinct, you know when its right and you BLAMMO, crush the target.
     
  5. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Chicago area
    Back when I just started shooting I signed up for a 2-day shooting course with Gil and Vicki Ash. Turns out it was a Sporting Clay class, but what did I know, I just wanted to learn to shoot better.

    One thing I got from that class that I always think about when someone asks about calculating lead . . . Gil and Vicki asserted that your brain will figure out the lead without you needing to do any sort of calculation, kind of a built-in brain function. They illustrated that by asking how you merged into traffic on the freeway when driving. Before changing lanes or entering the freeway do you calculate the distance from your car to the the car in front or in back, do you have some device to measure each cars speed and closing rate - or do you just look in your mirror/over your shoulder and then adjust your speed to match up with traffic and merge in?

    Scott
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,639
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    The proper method is called "swing through". To shoot a sustained lead you need your gun to match the target speed and by the time you accomplish this it is too far out to shoot properly (target is not rising any more).

    Your move to the target should follow the flight line, and your brain and previous experience does the rest. You have to let the little guy behind your eyeballs do his job. If you try to control him he gets pissed and makes you miss.

    HM
     
  7. ronbo142

    ronbo142 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,038
    Skeet Sustained lead most of the time.

    Trap look at the target keep head down pull trigger when the computer between ears tells finger.

    Simple

    ronbo
     
  8. wm rike

    wm rike Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    593
    Okay, now I'm confused. You guys who say you put the gun on autopilot and your cheek on the stock - If you are letting the gun "do what it is supposed to," and are not conscious of a lead, and it misses, do you know exactly what it did wrong? Shoot high, shoot behind, etc?

    I shoot follow-through with hard focus on the target. I have several guns that shoot to the same point but have different color beads and I switch maong them. At the end of the day I am often surprised to find that I don't know color bead was at the end of the barrel. However, I do know where the end of the barrel is. Depending on the angle of the bird, I know that I need to be just under it, a little to the right (or left), or get that barrel moving fast and make certain its still in motion when the trigger is pulled. When I miss, I know why and where the barrel should have been. I can see it happening before the gun goes off. Kind of like my trigger finger is on autopilot but not certain of its assigned task.

    I need to get me one of those automatic guns. Hell, if all I have to do is keep my head down.......
     
  9. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    953
    While Pat may have over-simplified a bit, I know exactly what he is saying.
    It really isn't the gun that knows what to do (even though it seems like it is), it's your body that knows what to do and does it automatically. Granted, it only can do this after shooting a fairly large number of targets successfully, but it DOES program a sequence of events including moving the gun to the right place (usually), pulling the trigger at the right time (usually, and following through whilst keeping the head on the stock (usually)....and it does this without conscious thought/input.

    Poke-and-hope? Not a reliable way to good scores in any shotgun game.
    There are three accepted methods of establishing lead:
    sustained
    swing-through
    pull-away (a combination of the first two)

    Poke and hope is not included in that group. Choose one of the three, stick with it, and you'll soon find the process becomes sub-conscious.
     
  10. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    520
    if you measure the lesd you will stop and pull the trigger aqnd shoot behind the target.
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    code5coupe, what you say is mostly true for "accepted methods" of getting in front of an angled target.

    However, the fly in the ointment, for that type of shooting is shooting or trying to shoot when theres no light on the gun. Standing behind the lights and shooting in the dark, leaves most everyone blowing holes in the air. If it was all about your sub-conscious movements, it should work just as well under those circumstances. Would it not? It's all about the eyes, day or night and how well they make some kind of relationship to a moving target. Hap
     
  12. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    953
    Not a hard-and-fast rule, fearless. The skeet shooters run a lot of targets by measuring lead.
     
  13. fearlessfain

    fearlessfain TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    520
    ask the "trick" shooters that shoot from the hip etc how they shoot without looking at the barrel.
     
  14. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,158
    Location:
    Nebraska
    As Frank would say, I try to see the "bird to bead relationship" but occasionally something goes wrong with the computer and I "poke and hope".

    jim brown
     
  15. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,759
    Eyes on the target at all times. Your brain will figure out the angles with a lot of pratice. Just keep your eyes on the target and keep your head down.
     
  16. lumper

    lumper TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,586
    Instead of poke and hope do ya think you could possibly use the term jab and stab instead? Poke and hope just doesn't really sound manly enough when ya sit back and think about it.
     
  17. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,352
    Location:
    Nashville Tn
    Since Skeet was my first game back in the 50's, I tend to use sustained lead on most targets. This does not mean I sustain the sight picture for a long period of time. If the bird/bead relationship and the matched barrel to target speed lasts for even one-half second, I consider it sustained lead. Many may call this swing through. There can be a very subtle difference between the two. Sustained lead does NOT mean a two second swing!

    Obviously, many targets have NO lead. I still call this sustained because the only time I "poke and hope' is if I foul up and do not see the target quickly.

    I sustain lead most every target. Intl' Bunker has the HARD lefts and rights that are so delightfully easy to miss. Many of the young athletes I shoot Bunker with have been taught to shoot the bird as quickly as possible. This looks good WHEN THEY HIT THE TARGET. I think it better to take the extra fraction of a second to get a good sight picture and be consistent.
     
  18. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2007
    Messages:
    1,796
    Tshooter92..........None of the above that you mentioned! You don't "lead" the target......you swing your gun from behind the target and fire when you intercept the target while continuing to move the gun through the target! Geez!
     
  19. Baber

    Baber TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,348
    Tshooter....

    If you are asking this question you really need a good coach. Yes... shoot at the target and keep your gun moving at the same speed and you will break it provided you saw it correctly to begin with. The one think I wish i had done when i first came into this game was find a good coach. Sadly there were almost none years ago so i had to figure it out myself. Do yourself a favor and get the help you need. I suggest either Bret Erickson who has the right idea on seeing the target or Bill Erdoss in Atlanta. Bill is the best mechanics guy in the country. He came through the old Soviet coaching system and really knows body and foot position. Do it right and you will be better off in the long run. I wish I could have been able to do it when i was younger.

    TB
     
  20. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,149
    Speed is lead--if you are shooting skeet ,wild or pen raised birds,crossing targets etc. if you pass the target,keep swinging and slap the trigger you will learn to hit it--what confuses you is that in trapshooting the target is going away from you and RISING--you must have some form of artificially causing the gun to shoot at a higher point of impact so that you just have to come up to the bottom of the target and slap the trigger without covering up the target--raise the comb on your gun--but don't forget to keep swinging--also for all you sustained lead or see the lead shooters out there ,how well can you figure out a lead at a target 60 yards from you as are common at some shoot offs at annie oakley or miss and out shoots for money? You can bet that the winners are not calculating ANY lead at all. They just look at the target and TRUST there swing.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

poke and hope in shooting

,

poke and hope in skeet shooting

,

skeet sustain lead or swing through

,

sustain lead skeet

,

swing thru versus sustained lead skeet shooting