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suppressor (yes or no)

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Landyn16, Apr 13, 2008.

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  1. Landyn16

    Landyn16 TS Member

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    I was thinking of getting a suppressor for my ruger 10/22 and my ruger mini 14 but befor I do. I would like to hear some other peoples ideas on suppressors. So if you have any info that you think I should know befor I get one, please let me know. thanks
     
  2. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If you're not aware, there are two basic types of suppressors.<br>
    <br>
    Integral suppressors usually have a short barrel, and this barrel often has holes in it to bleed gas off. For a 10-22, these suppressors used to be fairly large in diameter. Now they generally use a shortened sporting taper barrel, but the suppressor is the same diameter as a factory bull barrel. These are very effective suppressors, with a report like that of a bb gun to a pellet rifle. Drawback is the muzzle velocity is low, and this limits the range and power. The suppressor is also married to the rifle, and cannot be interchanged with other firearms.<br>
    <br>
    Threaded (or external) suppressors screw on to threads at the end of the barrel. The barrel does not have to be cut, except for the threads. Velocity is the same with or without the can. Generally the report is louder than with an integral suppressor. There are large cans that are quite effective, but they are heavy, and can significantly change the point of impact because of the pressure they put on the barrel. (A friend with a Rem 788 in 223 found a POI difference of a foot at 100 yards with and without his heavy steel can.) As a rule of thumb, the smaller the can, the less effective it is. On the plus side, these cans are transferrable between firearms. For example, if you bought a can for a .223 Rem, you could also use it on a 10-22 (though you'd probably want a bull barrel to support it.) A friend has a very small .22 rimfire can that fits small handguns has also put it on his 22 lever gun. Unfortunately, the can has to be removed in order to reload the mag tube, but it's pretty nice setup.<br>
    <br>
    Suppressors will have some sort of baffling inside. Like baffles, wipes, fiberglass or even coarse steel wool. Baffles are preferred, but if made of alloy, or thin steel, they can burn out when used with centerfires like the 223. With rimfires, they collect a lot of carbon and can plug up. The can needs to be able to be disassembled and cleaned. Baffles never touch the bullet, and if they did, damage would ensue. Wipes are usually made from rubber or thin tough plastic, or sometimes even felt. The bullet has to squeeze through them. This is the most effective for suppression, but the least accurate. Wipes almost always are considered expendable, and you need to make sure you can get replacements. As for steel wool or fiberglass, these materials can readily be replaced. Some use baffles, while others simply use the material with a perforated sleeve or even mesh tunnel that the bullet passes through. Some of these are "wet" cans. You need to fill them with a liquid, like water or a solvent with low flammability. (Believe it or not, I've even seen urine used.) Wet cans are messy, and generally are only effective for a few shots before they have to be rewetted.<br>
    <br>
    Be sure and check out the quirks for your state for ownership. For example, in Washington state, you can own a can, but you can't shoot it (unless you're on an indian reservation).<br>
    <br>
    Hunting with a suppressor can be interesting. A .223 can be reduced to the report of a 22 rimfire. I've seen coyotes get confused over where the report came from. Suppressors can allow you to shoot centerfires near farmhouses without getting on people's nerves.<br>
    <br>
     
  3. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    There are two types: integral, and detachable. Integral type is built permanently into the gun, and has gas-bleed holes halfway down the barrel designed to slow down high-velocity ammo to sub-sonic speed prior to exiting the muzzle (this gets rid of the supersonic "crack" that is so much of the gun's noise). Detachable is just what it says...can be screwed on and off the gun, but has no velocity-reducing feature (ie, you have to shoot sub-sonic ammo to be truly quiet).


    If you want to suppress the Mini-14...you'll need the integral type, or else need to load super slow sub-sonic loads.


    I recommend doing the 10/22...by the time you get the Mini-14 down to subsonic speed, the difference in power won't be much anyway (just 55 grs. vs. 40).


    In my opinion...get the detachable kind ("can" type), and shoot subsonic ammo in it. This is better than the integral kind, in my opinion, because you can transfer it from one gun to another & all you have to do is get each barrel threaded. You will have multiple suppressed guns for the price of only one $200 ATF registration stamp.


    Make sure you clean it every time you shoot it, just like a muzzle-loader...I'm not exaggerating - a few shooting sessions without cleaning, and the baffles and spacers will be glued together with solidified powder residue and you'll have to put it in an ultrasonic parts-cleaning bath to have any hope of getting it apart.


    One more thing...since all the weapons you mentioned were semi-autos...remember that when you go into quiet mode, the sound of your bolt slapping back and forth will make more noise than the gun. If you want truly quiet operation - go for a non semi-auto.


    I wish you much fun with your suppressed shooting exploits.
     
  4. Landyn16

    Landyn16 TS Member

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    Thanks for the info.
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Note the part about sub-sonic loadings. A supersonic bullet will have its own "crack", which is a miniature sonic boom. Some subsonic loads will not cycle a 10-22. Standard velocity target loads, though, work out quite well. With an integral suppressor, the action cycles standard or high speed .22 ammo, but the gas is bled down to the point where the bullet generally leaves the tube at subsonic velocities.
     
  6. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    if you want to try something cheap get a box of Aguila 22 SSS 22 long rifle and a 2 lt soda bottle tape bottle on barrel and have fun will last about 20 rounds rick
     
  7. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    no witness no crime and PA sucks rick
     
  8. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Cross bow, very quiet. Suppresor? Plan on clearing some rooms?
     
  9. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Before you jump through the hoops to get your NFA device, make sure you know what your responsibilities and liabilities are to possess a Title II device.

    Your local Sheriff or Chief of Police must sign off on it. After the tax and application finally clear, you will be subject to warrantless "inspections" to make sure your paperwork is in order and that the device is securely stored.

    At the range or during a traffic stop, a LEO who is unfamiliar with Federal law may arrest or detain you for possession of the device.

    If you take it over a state line, you must obtain permission from the BATFE Firearms Branch.

    To have it repaired, you must fill out paperwork and can only send it to a person licensed to repair a Title II device. You cannot leave the device with your local 'smith. Most gunshops will not want the device in their shop.

    I was a Title II dealer before the '86 ban. I mainly demo'd and sold to small PD's in Northern Tn and Southern Ky. I did not make enough money to fool with the stuff. Machine guns get old quick when you are feeding the beast. ($$$$$)
     
  10. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Landyn16,


    I see the "guff" level is starting to rise here...so I thought I would just offer a couple possibly helpful observations about how the registration process plays out, for the benefit of someone who's considering purchasing.


    Between myself and a couple friends, we account for maybe 20 NFA devices, and even more transactions. In all the time we've owned the devices, not one of us has ever been "inspected" by anyone. Now granted, in getting our applications approved, we've enjoyed the benefit of living in jurisdictions where the local Law Enforcement Official didn't have major objections to signing off on such applications (it helps if you dated his daughter, but that's another story!), so if you live in a Big-City Hellhole metropolis, that could potentially be your biggest obstacle. But I've found the registration process to be generally very painless.


    You see, the existence of these weapons and the NFA that covers them means the existence of a branch of a federal bureaucracy to oversee the application process...and these people generally seem to enjoy their jobs and want to keep them (like all government employees and agencies, they desire to last forever). They get federal pension eligibility for the relatively stress-free occupation of helping weirdos like me indulge our passion for "fun" things and transferring them back & forth.


    You locate an NFA Class III dealer who either has or can make or order the suppressor you're interested in. Working through him, you order the device, and he gives you an ATF Form 4 to fill out, which involves background questions + a small passport-style photograph of you and fingerprinting by your local Law Enforcement Official (assuming he's willing to sign off on your application of course...someone who is in a position to have local knowlege of whether you spend a lot of time in his jail for minor offenses, etc.).


    Once you've passed the local hurdle, your paperwork + $200 goes off to the feds via either Chicago or New Orleans (I forget which, there was a change in address recently but your dealer will help you out with this) and goes to the happy bureaucrats for your FBI background check. Again, I've found these folks to be very professional and helpful, and not the least interested in hassling you for no reason...after all, you're their customer and the reason they exist (you can believe this or not, but it has been my experience).


    If everything checks out...in about 30 days, the nice ATF people at the NFA Branch in Martins Ferry, West (BY GOD) Virginia mail you your approved papers and you can take possession of your device. (In the "bad old days," for instance when Clinton #1 was President, this process took as long as 7 months...but since the NFA Branch relocated out of Washington D.C. and was re-staffed by "good old boys" in W.V. (wink-wink), the turn-around time has gotten down to around a month, consistently).


    Keep these papers in your possession any time you have your device with you, use common sense, don't cross state lines with it or transfer it to anyone else's possession without approval, and you will be fine.


    Good luck and have fun with your device(s).


    best,
    buzzgun
     
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