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Super X-1 Barrel Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Chugiakshooter, Dec 26, 2012.

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  1. Chugiakshooter

    Chugiakshooter Member

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    On super X 1 trap models,is the barrel have a offset or bend in them to make them shoot higher?Did winchester do it when they put the rib on the barrel?
     
  2. illtrap1

    illtrap1 Member

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    there was a few barrels that shot higher from factory but most did not just stocked higher to make them shoot higher,but there was a run in one year it was in the barrels,Also some BT 99 competions with serial # did same thing both was good guns I had the BT99 comp for my dad his did not but the bt99's had quite abit of recoil I have a friend still shoots his most people kept them they are hard to come by,Dan
     
  3. AWC

    AWC Member

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    The SX1 trap barrel has a higher rib than a field barrel and it does shoot higher. There were late trap models put together with field barrels on them but the early ones all said Full or Imp mod trap choke these will have the higher rib.

    AWC
     
  4. WNCRob

    WNCRob Member

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    I have a Super X-1 Trap with the monte carlo stock. It is a fairly flat-shooting gun and, in fact, I use it for sporting clays with good results.The bbls certainly aren't bent. Trap guns are made to shoot high from the comb/rib relationship, not by some curvature in the barrel.

    WNCRob
     
  5. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    WNCROB, best do a re-think as you know not of what you speak!!
     
  6. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Guess I must be lucky as I've also owned dozens of SX-1's with a few that shot very high-including the one I currently own. A little lesson in barrel reading skills is necessary here.

    Those who believe guns cannot be made to shoot higher without raising the comb never owned a K-80 either. If they did, they'd realize the barrel flexes up or down when you turn that little wheely thing at the end of the barrel.

    Reminds me of the time I sent a SX-1 barrel back to the factory because the rib detached-screw at end of barrel broke and a common problem with early SX-1's. I shot it very well but when it returned couldn't hit a bull in the arse anymore. Seems they straightened the barrel from it's nice high impact to a normal 60/40. As I said, some know not of what they speak!!



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  7. AWC

    AWC Member

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    I just compared a field and a trap barrel. The rib posts on the trap barrel varies up to 3/16" higher than the field.

    I registered over 50,000 targets with a SX1 back in the 80's. Went to the 27yd line with it but was never AA in singles or doubles.Changed to K80 in 94 and got my pin.

    To me the SX1 is one of the greatest. I still use it for ducks and geese.AS a matter of fact I have become so narrow minded that if its not a K80 a SX1 or a Win. 21 20 ga. I am not very interested. But I am 74 as of today.

    AWC
     
  8. Cush

    Cush TS Member

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    AWC, you of course realize that if you'd stuck with the Super-X you'd have gotten the pin a couple of years earlier? :)

    I find the same thing comparing my field and trap SX1 barrels. Because the OD of the barrel is much bigger at the breach end, you can't just put a straight-edge on it. But when I look down the outside of the barrels it appears to me that the field barrel curls upward slightly and the trap barrel curls up even more. In both it appears to be a gradual curl over the entire length of the barrel.

    I shoot both the field barrel (with a factory MC trap stock) and the trap barrel (on a factory trap gun) on sporting and everything else and do not find that they shoot high, or that I have to "float the bird."

    Steve Fishcher wrote an excellent article on the SX-1 ten years ago in Clay Shooting USA Magazine. You can read it here:

    http://www.clayshootingusa.com/html/archive/nov_dec02/MythorMagic.pdf

    Steve said then the barrels were curved upward, too, but also found that even with a trap stock they did not shoot high for him.

    That said these guns are complete pieces of crap and I wish to hell you guys would quit buying them.
     
  9. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    cush is right saying the barrel diameter is thinner at the muzzle than the breech. That certainly will influence the straight edge effect and barrel bent appearance.

    But, it will not change the fact the barrel reads higher than a normal straight barrel. That effect is easily demonstrated by peering down a K-80 barrel while turning that funny little wheel!!
     
  10. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    Some of these shot 100% high. If you were lucky you got one. Most shoot 50/50 to 60'40 but there are are individual barrels out there that shoot at every point in between. I spoke often with the late Bob Baumgart and he had factory batrrels pattern from 40/60 to 100% high and higher and they were all factory barrels. he impact tested hundreds of barrels though.

    I have owned 100's of barrels and was never lucky enough to get a high shooter. best I ever had was 70/30 or so. Most of he traop models would give you 60/40 with the beads stacked.

    There were exceptions to the rules with these barrels but you had to have many through your hands to see them or get lucky.OR... Not lucky as the case may be.

    Some guys hate a high impact. I personally have never understoof why you would want pellets under where you are looking.

    This violates all principles of common sense. The same guy that will not shoot a 1 ounce load and must have 1 1/8 load will shoot a 50/50 impact and his effective pattern is less then 3/4 of an ounce of shot where the 100% high impact shooter at least has a chnace with his FULL 1 ounce of shot working for him.

    Oh well... Diffrent strokes.Jeff
     
  11. kgb

    kgb Member

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    Thanks for that background, Jeff. When I bought my SX-1 I'd spoken to Bob Baumgart to ask about the difference in barrels marked "Full Trap Choke" vs plain old field Full barrels. He told me of the rib height difference, but we didn't get into the fact there could be a range of impact percentages between like-style barrels. I later bought an IM Trap Choke barrel and although it only varied by maybe .005" in constriction I found I could hit a little better with it. Too late to compare impacts, but I wonder now if that has had more to do with relative success than the constriction's effect with my shells. Maybe the current barrel shoots just a bit higher---good excuse for missing over some of them, right?

    Kirk
     
  12. plux001

    plux001 Member

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    Jeff....Be assured, those of us who shoot a flat or near-flat gun do not have half our pattern under the bird...

    Yup...different strokes....

    Paul
     
  13. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

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    You have a chance when all your shot is above where you look. If you have shot below where you look when you pull the trigger it is useless. I think it's funny how guys will chip and hack at targets hitting them into 3 big chunks with those 5/8 ounce shells and it doesn't bother them a bit but they will lay awake sweating that they might shoot over one! I don't shoot trap anyhmore but if I did it would be with a 100% high shooting gun. It's a rising target game? Why would somebody do otherwise? I have never been given a logical explanation by anybody.Jeff
     
  14. plux001

    plux001 Member

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    Ok, I'll give it a try. Ask yourself this question...where do I want the bird to be when the shot cloud gets there? Obviously, you want the bird in the MIDDLE. That means there is shot under it as well as over it. The bird is a couple inches, the shot pattern is over 30 inches. Why in the world would you EVER want it all above the bird????

    Now, I know what you're thinking...the bird is rising, so as you pull the trigger, you need all the shot above the bird so the bird rises into it. In theory, that's true....except the bird is small and the pattern large (see above). So if you start with the pattern completely above the bird, and get a six inch rise when the shot gets there, the bird is in the bottom six inches of the pattern, not the center.

    I'm an old guy, been shooting trap for 30+ years. Learned on a Model 12 and still shoot one. It shoots flat. I move the gun to the bird as I shoot it. If I do it right, nothing but smoke....it's centered. I've tried high shooting guns, not for me. My goal is to center the bird in my pattern, and I've learned how to do it with a flat shooter. So I guess that means I'm wasting shot under the bird, and for that matter, over the bird as well.

    Paul
     
  15. Cush

    Cush TS Member

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    It's purely a matter of personal preference in the quest to put the CENTER of the pattern on as many birds as possible. The guys with high-shooting guns are not putting 60% (or more) of their pattern above the bird, they are centering up their rising birds without having to cover them up with the barrel. With a flat-shooting gun and a rising target you have no choice but to cover up the bird with the muzzle else they will shoot underneath the bird. Some people are fine with that, others not.
     
  16. Tom Strunk

    Tom Strunk Well-Known Member

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    Cush is correct.

    We that shoot shotguns with a 50/50 - 60/40 - 70/30 POI are setting our POI for the hardest breaks, FOR US. I use a 70/30 POI @ 40 yards for my trap shooting. Others such as Dan Orlich, Dan Bonillas, Phil Ross and many others shot around 60/40, all with excellent results.

    I would advise all shooters to adjust their shotguns to get the hardest breaks and then stop adjusting.

    My Super X barrel shot 60/40 from the factory, and I shot it good. I sent the gun to Tom Seitz for his blueprinting around 1983 0r 1984 he bent the barrel to shoot 70/30 and I was upset. He begged me to just try it a while without shooting any different. If I didn't like it he would change it back. I soon learned to shoot it just fine. I had no adjustable stock then.

    Think for your self, don't believe what some self proclaimed "expert" tells you on this site.


    Tom Strunk
     
  17. Chugiakshooter

    Chugiakshooter Member

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    I shot for the first time my SX-1 last night and was comparting it to a 1100 Competition.With a set of adjustable trapstocks that I bought from Illtrap,with only the field barrel.I missed the first two chandels,then was told to just point the damm thing,well on 5-stand out of 25 I missed 3.Between the 2 guns the SX-1 does feel to cycle better,they are both good semi-autos.Cush does have it right,they are just a piece of crap and would everyone quite buying them.At 15 degrees after the gun sat on the rack for one round,the hammer or firing pin would not strike the primer,I didn't clean it enough and the original cosmoline was just to thick to make the triggework.Mine is a early production at M 6500 serial range.
     
  18. Tom Strunk

    Tom Strunk Well-Known Member

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    Emerson Hoblit the guru of Super-X release triggers always told me to clean my trigger assembly by soaking it in kerosene, you might want to try soaking the bolt assembly and trigger assembly this way. Either air dry or with air pressure.

    Tom Strunk
     
  19. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    "I would advise all shooters to adjust their shotguns to get the hardest breaks and then stop adjusting."

    Thats the best advice for breaking targets with consistency! That, regardless of what your personal best POI happens to be! How you attack a rising and angling target determines the best POI for you and not what others may suggest as the best flavor of ice cream for the weak?

    It's far easier to adjust the gun to your personal timing than to learn how to shoot any particular shot gun by shooting thousands of rounds to do so. Thats what Frank Little always said, "it takes many thousands of rounds to acclimate yourself to a new shotgun" ? A hell of a lot less expensive too with the advice above!!

    Harem Crampbull
     
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