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Super Star machine trouble.....help

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by turmite, Apr 13, 2010.

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  1. turmite

    turmite Member

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    Our high school trap team has a GMV Super Star trap machine and we need some help if anyone here is familar with them. The machine is throwing continous birds whether the trigger is used or even hooked up! The head coach is pretty good with this, but he told me tonight he is stumped! He thinks possibly the electro magnet that holds the arm is low voltage, but can't get in to check it to see while the machine is armed.


    Help??

    Mike
     
  2. bullet2

    bullet2 TS Member

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    check the micro switch tha pushes up when the arm swings through
     
  3. dvice

    dvice TS Member

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    Is this a singles only machine or singles/doubles? Singles machine it will probably be the micro switch, magnet, or clutch adjustment. S/D machine could be the proximity switch adjustment on the front of the machine or sear that holds the arm cocked. dave vice
     
  4. turmite

    turmite Member

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    Thanks guys....it is a singles only machine.
     
  5. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    It is 24 volt and could be one of three things. The most likley is the mocro switch is bad or out of adjustement. The next place to look will be the clutch adjustemnt
     
  6. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    There are two electrical supplies to your machine - one is 110V the other a transformer produced 24V.

    The 24V is responsible for keeping the machine FROM firing - when the current is turned off, the machine will fire.

    Two easy things to check -

    1) the main power switch - the gray box (it controls the 110V & 24V) - often corrosion builds here and prevents the 24V from flowing (the 110V overcomes the resistance more easily) - net result is pinwheeling.

    With power off just open the box and check for dirt, water, corrosion, etc.

    2) The electromagnet assembly itself. Broken target pieces & dirt can build here and prevent the magnet from setting. it doesn't take much.

    From BEHIND the machine it will be located on the front left corner of the machine - just in front of where the target drops down. There are two parts - a horizontal circle - looks a lot like a bullseye target - and a lever that looks a bit like a stop sign on it's post. The magnet is stationary, the lever rotates up and down slightly. Check these surfaces for dirt (too much can stop the magnet from holding the lever arm), and broken target debris.

    Clean with a cloth and WD-40 (hey, that's what they tell you to use...).

    The micro switch is a possibility, but it tends to fail in the 'on' position, so you usually get NO target thrown (it is possible that it fails the other way, so it is worth checking). Check the attached website for its location on your machine.

    The clutch is seldom the problem - I am over simplifying here, but the 'wear factor' would make it NOT cock the machine at all. To cause the pinwheeling it would have to gain material on its surfaces to keep it from disengaging (yes, an accumulation of dirt could cause this). Check it anyway.

    Standing behind the machine it will be on the right rear corner between the motor and the body of the machine. It is a miniature version of the AC clutch you would see on a car. As the machine runs it should open and close as the machine cycles. The movement is measured in thousandths of inches, but it is visible in that one half of the unit will NOT be spinning when it opens - when closed both will spin.

    Last area to look is inside the control box itself. Like the switch, corrosion can crude things up here (especially if the machine is in a really wet environment). If you are comfortable with electricity you can 'probe' through the circuits to see where your circuit is 'open.'

    I've included the link to GMV's service manuals - there are some troubleshooting guides, as well as diagrams that might help you locate/diagnose what is going on.

    NOTE - look at the manuals for the other machines - not just yours. Some have better pictures, some have better troubleshooting guides.

    Good luck,

    David D
     
  7. kgun_shooter

    kgun_shooter Member

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    The gun club I use to belong too had one. The electro magnet mount always came loose or broke and that would cause the machine to windmill. Check the Magnet Mount!
     
  8. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Any news?
     
  9. turmite

    turmite Member

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    Thanks for the responses, and the request for an update.

    We tried all the suggestions and I even called Gene Sears out in El Reno Ok and talked with his mechanic. He suggested pretty much everything that was suggested here. We are at a standstill till that machine is fixed and it looks like a trip to Ok next week.

    I will post what then find when it is fixed. Maybe that will help someone in the future.

    Mike
     
  10. smp005

    smp005 Member

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    99% of the time when one of mine starts to windmill it is a short in the cable that runs from the Canterbury control box in the trap house to the speaker control box...

    Assuming you have canterbury voice releases, unhook the cable at the control box in the house and see if it stops windmilling...

    Scott Powell

    Range Manager

    North Lawrence Trap Range
     
  11. turmite

    turmite Member

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    This is the electrical button release. We thought it might be a short in the cable, but after disconnecting the cable it continued to windmill.

    Keep the ideas coming.

    I did notice yesterday while watching the machine being re assembled that the electrical control box was quite corroded, and ask the coach about it. He said that he had checked all the contacts and connections as well as using a meter to check voltages.

    Mike
     
  12. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Any word or your machine yet??
     
  13. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Had this happen once on an older Star machine and the trouble turned out to be low voltage to the house for some reason. I'm no electrician and reading a voltage meter is about the extent of my expertise. For some reason, I happened to check that and we were getting intermittent low voltage depending on a draw somewhere else in the fields. Ran a seperate chord to get the proper voltage to the machine and the issue went away. Please let us know how you make out. Life is full of lessons. Good luck, Bob
     
  14. Ljutic111

    Ljutic111 TS Member

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    Sounds familiar on the voltage problem . We lost the neutral leg due to corrosion in our main panel box and there was no 110 volts to run any machinery or power tools but the fluorecent lights worked which surprised the hell out of me .
     
  15. turmite

    turmite Member

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    Guys thanks for the interest and as soon as this is resolved, I will let you know. We have a very heavy gauge extension cable that we used for several practices due to another issue like this and on that one, we discovered a nicked underground cable shorting out. We know the machine worked fine with the heavy gauge cable because it worked so flawlessly. The cable has been tested with a meter and it is producing 110vac.

    Mike
     
  16. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Mike, I wish I could remember exactly what we had. 110 is not what you're looking for. I think you are getting into the marginal territory. I"THINK"?? we were around 105 to 110 and in trouble. 115 to 120 we were good. Just memory, from a few years ago, but I think I'm close to what it was. CRS Bob
     
  17. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    I may be over-simplifying, but a voltage drop could easily be the cause.

    The electromagnet force to hold the arm in place is generated via a 24V circuit, which is produced by a transformer. As voltage drops to the machine the output voltage to the magnet will drop as well.

    Below a certain point it will not hold the arm in place and the target will throw on its own.

    You might want to check the voltage not across the 110V circuit, but the 24V circuit...
     
  18. turmite

    turmite Member

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    HSDS,

    Double checked the line voltage and it is 117vac. Thanks for the suggestion.

    We have parts being overnighted and should be here this afternoon. The mechanic that we were going to have work on it is on his way to Colo. So now we try different parts and see.

    BTW one of the things the repair shop suggested we try was to pull the cover off of the back of the motor with the clutch and see if there was any back and forth movement in the shaft. He said this could also cause the clutch not to work correctly, but after checking, it was snug and no movement.

    Mike
     
  19. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    I have been following this for some time now and it has not beem mentioned that the sear on the magnet arm may be broken. We had this happen to one of ours a few years ago and it did just what you say yours is doing. Check it out. Bernie
     
  20. turmite

    turmite Member

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    Hi Shawn,

    We used a feeler gauge to set the clutch gap so that has been taken care of. Thanks for the help and if you can think of anything else, please....please post.

    Bernie I have the pdf in from of me and I see the part# and the sear pictured, but I do not see where it is located on the machine. Can you help me with that? This is a new suggestion and one that diffently will be checked.

    While I am at it, does anyone have a wiring diamgram for this machine? Or..are they all different? I cannot find one on the net either. I have an email to the manufacturer and the US Distributor, but so far no replies.

    We had three of our shooters who competed in the 2nd Arkansas Jr. Olympic Trials this past week end, and had to compete without the benefit of practice last week. One finished 5 birds from qualifing for the trip to Colorado and another missed it by 7 birds. My heart tells me if they had been able to practice all those extra days, they would have made it.

    We have our Arkansas AYSSP regionals coming up in two weeks and we have already lost a week of shooting. This is not fun, but I sure do appreciate all the help that is forthcoming here on TS.

    Mike
     
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