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Super-Senior-Veteran Class being considered?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by phirel, Nov 16, 2007.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    This can be done now by individual gun clubs. If many of them began recognizing this group as a distinct class then it would support an existing feeling within the ATA BOD to include it with the ATA trophy package for the Grand, Satellite Grands, Zone and State Shoot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  2. WarEagle2017

    WarEagle2017 Active Member

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    Yes to get into the Super Senior Class You have to be 97 and accompanied by your Parents
     
  3. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    What is this...skeet?

    The last skeet shoot I shot in, there were 11 competitors. Over 70 of us won trophies of some sort.
     
  4. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    If we make the game easy enough and add enough classes everyone will get a trophy... Skeet has all but died with this moronic attitude. Is this a test of shooting skills or a chuck-a-luck wheel?

    Put 'em in the 3 hole and toss them 52 yards and lets find out who can shoot!

    Now I feel better...

    Bob Schultz
     
  5. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Bob.......You're a man after my own heart!! I couldn't have said it better myself. This is trapshooting, for crying out loud, not shuffle board..... Now I feel better, too....Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  6. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    We have classes to designate different ability levels in singles and doubles. Distance or yardage groups for different ability levels in handicap events. I can't believe how many guys refuse yardage reductions when they can't hit squat from the 27 yard line. It just can't be fun to average 82 from long yardage.

    Good shooting takes hard work and discipline. If one is not willing to put forth the effort and time, well, you reap as you sow. If there is a lack of talent factor ... well, I'm sorry, you just suck. I would love to play better basketball ... but this fat old white man has and always had a serious lack of talent for the game, tough luck. The NBA is not going to have a "fat old white guy" trophy any time soon, so I'll stick to trap shooting for now.

    At major shoots a Vet, Senior Vet, Lady, Sub-Junior and Junior trophies are appropriate as long as there are a few competitors in the class. Handing someone a trophy for being the only one there makes "Affirmative Action" programs look justified. "Hi, you just won the (fill in catagory) trophy cause you were the only one here!" Talk about a slap in the face to trap shooting and the person!

    Have a nice weekend, shoot well,

    Bob Schultz
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    This question has been before the BOD a couple of times. It was rejected primarily because there was no hard data to support the idea.

    An individual club can do this now. Classification of shooters into any groups they wish is at the discretion of the club. A club is allowed to group singles shooters into one or 20 different classes if they wish. And, a club is not required to give the same trophies to each class. The ATA would not prohibit a program that stated no trophies are to be given to AA or A shooters, and first, second and third place trophies are to be given to classes B, C, D, E, F, G and a Veterans trophy will be awarded but a shooter must be over 80 years old to be a veteran at this shoot.

    If a club were to use this type of program, it would result in many comments on this site.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    52 yard target, 3 hole, 7/8's loads, forced reductions required if one does not meet the average requirements. Make it a real game once again. Then of course, change the grand date to late Sept. or October.

    Keep on dreaming, no one has the guts to make the changes.
     
  9. old tex

    old tex TS Member

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    Some day you guys will be 76 too if you are lucky. Then we will see if your perspective changes.

    Of course I'll be 90 and still Sr. Vet if I can see a target.
     
  10. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm one of those E class lurkers in skeet, I guess. Carry an E in 12 gauge, C's and D's all other gauges. Except for doubles where, for some reason, I'm B class. Go figure. And yes, Earl, I'm quite happy when I win some lowly class or other at a skeet shoot up here in Alaska. I have a lot more fun though, on the VERY rare occasions I can put the fear into one of the A class shooters - I pulled a 96 out of somplace left of my back pocket the other day and lost by 2 to a really, really fine skeet shooter. But I was still second.

    I guess I believe there's only one winner at the end of the day...class wins are nice (I have a few B class singles wins in trap)...but I've never won a singles event outright.

    Two years ago, I had the privlege of shooting against Jim Beamon in the Alaska State shoot B singles shootoff. I know no one here knows Jim...I seem to recall he was 81 two years ago. He took me to the second box in a shootoff, and after I won he shook my hand and wandered over to the next field for his other shoot off - where he promptly kicked the living crap out of a guy for the handicap short yardage. And often, John Ulsher wins our 'caps up here...he's a vet, too.

    The super seniors don't need our help. Nor,I suspect, do many of them want it...they were raised when you played to win.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    champion II- You agreed with my good friend Bob Schultz when you posted "Bob Schultz is 100 percent right 3 hole 52 yards....get rid of the fluffs."

    You forgot to add that the "fluffs" are ca 70% of the shooters and they are the ones who support our game. The majority of shooters are not willing to pay the price to become a AAA 27 AAA shooter like Bob.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    champion II- Are you really contending that shooters who do not shoot well should quit? That would certainly put many clubs out of business and ease the office work at Vandalia.


    Pat Ireland
     
  13. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    You of the great mental ability should recall that the super senior class is up to the club, who furnishes the trophies. So what are you B & W about. If a club wants to do it, so what.

    Schultz if you only sold to AAA shooters and AAA clubs, how long would you be in business??

    Pat; chumpionII must be on the cover of T & F every month as good as he says he is. The only thing keeping him off of it is that the fluff is kicking his butt. To many shooters worry about every one else and not enough about their own game.

    chumpionII; Bring your sorry butt around. I know some old "fluff" vets and sr. vets that would be more than happy to kick your butt. If it is to much for you to give back to those who started and kept this sport going then you are a sorry case.

    Don
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    champion II- I agree with you, the game is what it is and it is 2 hole targets thrown 50 yards. If you follow your second comment, it would appear that you intend to only shoot league events.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. Ron Frazier

    Ron Frazier TS Member

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    "If it is to much for you to give back to those who started and kept this sport going then you are a sorry case."

    Everyone please note! I want to go on record that today, November 18th, 2007, I totally, 100% agree with Big Don on a topic. If it weren't for the old timers that kept things going we would all be doing something other than Trapshooting. I am in favor of ANYTHING that makes shooting better and more enjoyable for them. They don't ask for anything and give a lot. We should all honor them and be grateful that they let us shoot with them. A separate trophy for those who can still compete at an advanced age is not going to hurt any of us.
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    How about Veteran A & B, Senior Veteran A & B, and Lady A & B? If you are in an A singles class (A, AA, AAA) you are in A, if not you are in B. At big shoots these categories are little more than added AA and AAA trophies and there are plenty of Vets and so on who have never won and this just might keep them in the game.

    At the start, Grands and State shoots and zone shoots.

    Neil
     
  17. Cherokee Kid

    Cherokee Kid TS Member

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    Sure Neil, Just make sure they have to enter those classes upfront. I'm tired of all the old guys cleaning my clock!
     
  18. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    BIGDON,

    I suggest you scroll up and re-read my post. I never said anything about eliminating the classes and yardage groups we now have. I did however say, " At major shoots a Vet, Senior Vet, Lady, Sub-Junior and Junior trophies are appropriate as long as there are a few competitors in the class. Handing someone a trophy for being the only one there makes "Affirmative Action" programs look justified. "Hi, you just won the (fill in catagory) trophy cause you were the only one here!" Talk about a slap in the face to trap shooting and the person!"

    By shooting at more dificult targets we would have a greater separation between classes and yardage groups. I remember shooting on windy days when the short yardage guys and gals cleaned up! I think a challenge is better than a gift...don't you?

    The original post was asking about a Super Senior Veteran class, I have no issue with that either as long as there are a couple of our distinguished Super Seniors competing for the honor. Not just find some octogenarian with a gun and hand him a trophy cause he still has a pulse!

    Bob
     
  19. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Bob; I have shot both targets as you have. I will shoot whatever they throw. I do think clubs want to make it easier i.e. all orange, 2 hole for fear if you don't shoot high scores you won't come back, to bad.

    Throw the 3 hole, you may lose a few but not the true shooters. The 2 holers must be democrats - They want everyone to win. I can remember what it was like to fear a hard right or left.

    Super senior class could be had if the club, assoc., or an individual wants to come up with the trophy money. It is not an ATA thing at this time.

    Don
     
  20. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    As usual I like to put my 2 cents worth in.

    First as to adding an additional Super-Sen-Vet Class. I am currently a senior vet. just turned 72 this past week. (As many of you may be aware the PITA has
    an additional class for elder vets). That said I, although rapidly approaching that age, I am totally against adding another class. There are enough classes and categories as it is.

    I agree with Bob Schultz. There are simply too many shooters shooting yardages beyound their abilities. Reduction may help them. Let us make it easier to obtain reductions. Lower the requirements for same.

    Also many post they believe by increasing target speed, angles, or decreasing shot loads we will loose shooters. I have been involved in the operation of a
    club for several years. Maybe we will loose a very few. But the dedicated shooters will remain. Some us may complain a little more, but we will still be here. And just maybe by implementing change we may keep a few more shooters for a longer period of time. I have heard, all to frequently, by new shooters they cannot compete with the top shooters ability to shoot high scores. And my opinion is these top shooters scores will decrease with needed changes. Thus allowing the short yardage shooter to sneak in once in while.
    And he/she should not be considered a sand bagger. Hell the real sandbaggers are the pro's. - Jim
     
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