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Sub-Gauge Tubes and Weights

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by GrandpasArms, Oct 15, 2012.

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  1. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    Adding sub-gauge tubes adds weight to a 12 gauge - OF COURSE.

    How does a shooter adjust to using 12 gauge after becoming familiar with weight and swing of the 20, 28, and .410 bore? Or, does the shooter always shoot 20 and smaller?

    Larry
     
  2. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    Add a barrel Weight equal to the tubes weight in the spot that makes them balance the same. Jeff
     
  3. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    No it doesnt equal the weight-- you can never do it by adding a weight- you either have to have a heavy barrel or you have to shoot the 20 gauge in 12 gauge and doubles ( not a big deal)

    The problem is something called moment arm-- picture this- if you put a weight at any one spot on the barrel- the additional weight will create force around that point- it wont be evenly spread==

    The only way to have even weight distribution is to have even weight around the entire length of the object being swung

    Another examples- 2 baseball bats- both 39 onces-- but one has a very narrow grip and the barrel is very thick and the other has a very thick grip but thinner barrel than the first- both are 36 inches long- could a major league batter get a hit with either- doubt it

    Could he tell the differene in feel and swing- you betcha

    Now what if you made them the same weight again but that was because one was very thin all the way to the tip but you put a weight about 2 inches from your hand on the thin one of 12 onces to make both bats weigh the same

    ETC

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  4. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    Ha Ha bet mine is way good enough for 90% of the people ouy there.And I Know its way better than not putting weight on at all. I can sure tell weighy difference in my custom pool cues but they only weigh 19 oz.Apples v oranges. Jeff
     
  5. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    If shooting Skeet, the 12 is not needed. Todd Bender had more than one 100% seasons, WITH THE 20!

    A tubed 20 cannot be matched on the Skeet field. I do not use the 12 when shooting Skeet.
     
  6. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    Sorry to tell you but Todd has been back shooting the 12 for years.Jeff
     
  7. biercart

    biercart Member

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    Todd has a two barrel set up, one for tubes and a heavy one for the 12 gauge to match the tubed barrel weight.
     
  8. dessivanov

    dessivanov Member

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    Heavy barrel is ideal but it would require money locked into a carrier barrel. The cheaper and more common option is to have a barrel weight for shooting the 12. The difference is so small that it would most likely not be noticed by the shooter. 20 Ga is great for skeet but one would benefit from the extra lead thrown at the target. Todd Bender also has many 100 straight with .410 but you are not him and will not match his skills. Bottom line, if you shoot a tubed gun, and you wish to shoot the 12 GA, you should have a barrel weight to simulate the balance with tubes. Dess
     
  9. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

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    I too have been dealing with this dilema with my new (to me) skeet gun/tube set.

    Do barrel weights marr the finish on the 12 ga. carrier barrel when using it for 12 gauge events?

    Also is the weight quick/easy to install between events...or rather tedious.

    Thanks..Stan M.
     
  10. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    Any quality weight will be lined with a no mar material. Only takes a few minutes. Jeff
     
  11. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Some terms used loosely here

    Carrier barrel is usually a non shootable barrel-

    So if you have a carrier barrel with tubes it weighs the same as a 12 gauge barrel

    Or you could use a regular barrel and have a heavyweight barrel( a barrel usually set up witha thicker wall thickness)

    Or you could use a barrel weight on a standard barrel

    Now the best kind of barrel weight is the one made by Ian and he advertises here- it goes between the barrel and is much longer and thus distributes the weight over a much larger area------------- it is the best barrel weight and nearly as good as a heavy barrel

    The most common type of weight though is a short one- and yes you can feel it is not the same

    Also- you dont get any more breaks (at skeet) I truly believe with a 12 gauge than you do with a 20 gauge- the additional pellets at 22 yards (max skeet range usually) dont help-- the pattern is already filled out----

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  12. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    Obviously you have never been in a shootoff with Wayne Mayes LOL. Jeff
     
  13. dessivanov

    dessivanov Member

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    Perhaps there is no difference in scores between 20 and 12GA for you. However,the top Skeet shooters' averages in 12 GA are slightly higher than their 20GA. That is the reason they shoot 12GA guns in the 12GA events and the only ones I know of that shoot 20GA in a 12GA event are recoil sensitive due to medical reasons or old age. Most top shooters shoot semi-auto shotguns to combat the recoil. My scores are also higher in 12GA than 20 and I do shoot 12 with a barrel weight. The difference in weight is very small and it would be much greater, therefore inhibiting performance, without a barrel weight. JMO Dess
     
  14. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Having shot with Todd when he was a skinny kid, I and everyone else knows he shoots the 12.

    He breaks more birds with the 20. My point it, there is no need for the 12 on the Skeet field.

    Many "normal" tube gun shooters shoot their first 100 straight with and have their highest average with the 28.

    When I was younger, healthier, and shot competition, I used a K-gun with heavy 12 barrel and carrier tube set up. Highest average was with the 28.
     
  15. dessivanov

    dessivanov Member

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    I do not think that Todd breaks more birds with the 20. He shoots equally good with 12, 20, 28, and .410. His average with the 28 is the highest. However, we are not Todd Bender and 12 GA is a gun we shoot best. Todd's pattern of his 12 and 20 is the same size, while other shooters' pattern is larger with the 12 than that of their 20. This allows us to "steal" a target or two out of 100. That is enough for me. I broke my first, second, third, and forth hundred straight with the 12 and everyone I know who has 100 has done so with their 12 first.
    Wayne Mayes' average is higher with his 12 than any other gauge. He shoots great with all gauges but 12 holds his highest average. I do not have the pleasure to personally know either of them but have watched them (on internet) shoot. Simply put you can have slightly larger pattern with the 12, therefore, more chances of "lucky" breaks or chips. Again JMO Dess
     
  16. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Larry, to get back to your question, I use a barrel weight that I got from Briley when I had them tube my gun. It does move abit while shooting. If you plan on shooting alot of 12 ga. than Ian's barrel weight would be a better way to go. I see very little reason to shoot the 12 ga. barrels at most shoots, because of the little difference between the 12 and 20 coupled to having change tubes, clean the 12 ga. barrels and chambers before re-installing another ga. size tube. Less problems to just change tubes with no cleaning until you want to clean them at home or what/have you. Maybe once or twice a year at the really big shoots you may want to go with the 12 ga.barrel for the 12 ga. event. Now it only took me 4-6 weeks to get used to the extra ll oz.s (ultra lights tubes, not Matched weight) of weight. I have little problems with it and actually like shooting my heavier than normal gun (less kick). Now if you think this may be a problem I suggest you try shooting a tubed gun for a whole day and several day in a row if need be. A carrier barrel set means spending super big bucks because only the most expensive gun makers make them. Best of Luck and break em all. Jeff
     
  17. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Those posters who are making their livings shooting skeet, please raise your hands. Those of us who are not making our livings shooting skeet will continue to be happy with our Kolar and Briley 12 gauge barrel weights which may or may not exactly match the balance of our tube sets. As a matter of fact, I have run a few hundreds with my 12 gauge gun without barrel weights. Now how did I ever manage to do that??
     
  18. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

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    A true Carrier barrel with tubes installed will always weigh more than a similar barrel that hasn't been altered - always! Usually 2 to 4 ounces more.

    If you'd like to learn to shoot skeet, get one of Todd's DVD's -- they're amazing. And then take one of his classes - you can find the schedule on his web-site.

    I was fortunate to tie Todd in the 28ga , as well as a few others, at the BlueGrass Open in Louisville Ky one year. Went 3 boxes before he missed low 4 late in the last box. The smile on my face was so big I needed help getting into my car that night.

    The BlueGrass was one of the nicest and well run skeet ranges you ever saw and their Champonship Tournament used to draw the best shooters from all around.
     
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