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STUPID USA LAW

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Calgary Guy, Aug 11, 2007.

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  1. Calgary Guy

    Calgary Guy TS Member

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    Double post
     
  2. Calgary Guy

    Calgary Guy TS Member

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    Ok, this really ticks me off.

    Why on earth do I have to get permision to bring my gun into the States?
    Sure I dont mind letting the border guard take some information about it and me, but why do I have to wait 6-8 weeks for "permision".

    This is the most useless law since Canada put in gun registration. I wonder if the same clowns who drafted our laws came up with this one???
    GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

    Now here is the question of the day.

    Since my wife is a American, can she take my gun down to the states? And if so does she have to be in controll of it?

    Calgary Guy
     
  3. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    I agree it's a stupid law. Do the clowns writing the laws really think a terroist is going to ask for permission?

    I would think your wife could bring it across the border, but that is common sense thinking there, and most laws written in the last 25 years lack commom sense.
     
  4. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Jamie, you better bite the bullet and get your Form 6. Your wife would have to prove that she is owner of the guns and is invited to a trapshoot.
     
  5. Calgary Guy

    Calgary Guy TS Member

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    Mike.. I am going to get that form 6. Just ticks me off is all.
    Did you shoot this weekend? I was thinking about heading to Claresholm, but I just didnt have the energy after the provincials. I think I wore myself out. I hit the fun shoot at Calgary. Good thing I didnt go, my Citori broke.. Its at the gunsmith as we speak.

    Jamie
     
  6. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    I agree...it won't solve anything...but it's there and won't in all likelyhood be repealed...as for getting my form 6...I just don't know if I want to go to the trouble of jumping through all those hoops just to shoot in the US...and I am beginning to feel the same way about a passport too...
     
  7. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Okay Gordy, 911 made crossing the border in either direction an ugly process but maybe it does discourage a terrorist.
     
  8. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    I can only use Quebec and Ontario as examples, but most shooters that I know all have passports and had them for years.

    As for the ATF Form 6NIA, the average processing in the last year has been under two weeks for most. I recommend a stateside hunting license from any state. Go with the cheapest. You can use shoot invitations, but sometimes a hassle.

    I believe the ATF has an agreement with Canadian firearms center on registration information, as Canadian license information is required on the ATF Form 6NIA. Nothing that I can prove. So if you clam the firearms belong to your wife and they are registered in your name, and they talk to each other...

    If you wish your wife to import the firearms to the U.S., your wife will have control of the firearms. Under U.S. Federal law you cannot have possession of them (even to borrow) unless you have a state side hunting license (any state) in your possession, even then, they will be her firearms while in the states.

    So, if your going to need a hunting license anyway you might as well get an ATF Form 6NIA.

    Have your wife call the ATF in West Virgina and have her pose the question, as your a Canadian trying to get around US laws using your wifes citizenship, it would be interesting to hear the answer given.

    The problem you may have is that the firearms are in your name, registered in Canada. They don't belong to your wife and never have. You need to hope the two agencies don't talk to each other.

    US citizens don't use or need an ATF Form 6NIA.

    She may need another type of Form 6 for permanent import to the US (or an original bill of sale in her name). On her return to Canada she just picks up a US Customs form that will allow for her to always bring the firearms back into the states. Now, said firearms will also have to be in her name in Canada.

    In any case, you may put your wife in a position that she should not be placed in with regard to the Feds and maybe even with the Canadian firearms center.

    By the way, it's $25 for a US citizen to bring a long gun into Canada for 60 days. It used to be for one year, but that has changed. Many of us now have a Canadian Firearms License that is good for five years.
     
  9. dcan67

    dcan67 TS Member

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    Gordie all that is required is the followin;
    Option 1
    You can declare your firearms in writing, in triplicate, using the Non-Resident Firearm Declaration (form CAFC 909).
    If you are bringing more than three firearms, attach a Non-Resident Firearm Declaration Continuation Sheet (form CAFC 910).
    Please fill out the declaration form ahead of time to save time at the point of entry. However, wait until you arrive at the point of entry to sign the form because a customs officer must witness your signature.
    Once the customs officer has confirmed your declaration, it will have the same effect as a licence for you and a temporary registration certificate for all the firearms you bring to Canada. It is valid for 60 days. You can renew your declaration at no additional fee, if you renew it before it expires, by contacting the CFO of the province or territory where you are staying. To renew it, call 1 800 731-4000.
    A confirmed declaration costs a flat fee of $25, regardless of the number of firearms listed on it. It is only valid for the person who signs it and for those firearms listed on the declaration. If you come with others who will be using firearms in Canada, you will each need to meet these requirements.
    Option 2
    You can apply for a five-year Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) and register your firearms in Canada. You must wait until you get your PAL before you register your firearms.
    If you apply for a PAL, you must provide evidence that you have passed the written and practical tests for the Canadian Firearms Safety Course. If you wish to be licensed for restricted firearms, you must also have passed the tests for Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course. A course from your own country would not meet the requirements of Canadian law. You can take the tests without taking the courses.
    Contact the Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) of the province where you will most likely be using the firearm for information on any other documents you need to provide from authorities in your country to assist with the background safety check.
    Once you have your PAL, you can apply to register your firearms online for free or by submitting a paper application (CAFC 998). The firearms must be verified by an approved verifier before they are registered. Call 1-800-731-4000 (Canada and the U.S.) or 1-506-624-5380 (outside Canada and the U.S.) for help to verify your firearms.
    If you have a valid licence and registration certificate, you will not have to complete the Non-Resident Firearm Declaration and pay a fee. However, you will still have to make an oral declaration to the customs officer.


    As you can see it only in most cases takes a few mins and 25.00.
     
  10. big D

    big D TS Member

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    I travel from Alaska and back through Canada every year and it is no trouble. I get the forms off the internet before I leave, fill them out and present them to customs. I show them again coming back. No trouble at all.I have a passport which seems to help. Dave Inman
     
  11. Calgary Guy

    Calgary Guy TS Member

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    I guess what my big problem is, is that it (Stupid law) stops Canadian sportsmen from makeing last minute trips to the States. I was fully prepared to make a last minute run to the Grand. I thought it would be a great experiance and a bit of a adventure.
    I guess its not that big of a deal and I plan to be a bit more prepared in the comming weeks. In the end I knew of the law and I wasent prepared. So I cant blame the US Gov for me not going.
    However, they sure dont make it easy on law abiding sportsmen to enjoy our chosen sports.

    GORDON. It seems you guys headed north have the ability to just show up, fill out the paperwork and you are here. As compared to haveing to wait a few weeks, get a invite, or purchase a hunting license. Perhaps it would be best if you did a bit of research before shooting off YOUR mouth.

    As for useing my wife to get around US laws, that was not my intention. And of course I would never put my wife in that sittuation, I was just interested in how it worked.

    Calgary Guy
     
  12. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    How about shipping your gun to a FFL state side? could that be done?
     
  13. Calgary Guy

    Calgary Guy TS Member

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    Mike, you are correct. But it still TICKS me off. LOLOLOL
    BTW, we also are at war, but yet our laws seem a bit more user friendly
    Probably best I didnt go. Hunting season is comming up.
    That and it was very discouraging to see all the 100 straights at the grand.
    I expected it in the bigger classes, but to see it in D and C.. WOW. A guy realy needs to have his "A" game in order.
    I think next year I will take a look at going. It sure sounds like a great time.

    Calgary Guy
     
  14. twopipe

    twopipe Member

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    Location:
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    from ATF website:
    Frequently Asked Questions

    (R34) I am a U.S. citizen living in Canada with no State of residency in the United States. Do I need an import permit to temporarily bring my gun to the U.S. to hunt or to attend target shooting events?

    No. You are not required to obtain an import permit. The import permit requirement only applies to nonimmigrant aliens.
     
  15. Jim Pollock

    Jim Pollock TS Member

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    I always show my passport when crossing the border and have used the Form 6 with shoot invitations for the past 4 years. I do not recall ever having been asked to show the invitation however have heard of people being challenged if they do not have a personal invitation. I have heard that with some of the border officials, a copy of the programme is not adequate.

    As for the passport, when I show that crossing the border, it seems to make the process very straightforward and is worth getting for that reason alone, whether or not you are taking firearms across.

    I guess that if you can cross the border into Michigan with trap guns, light ammunition loads and a bear hunting licence for Alaska without hassle, yet telling the truth and showing a copy of a programme that the people organizing the shoot in all likelyhood mailed to you to entice you to come, is not adequate, the laws must have been structured by someone that didn't know what they were doing. This is also the case with our firears registration process in Canada but I won't go there, it's not good for my blood pressure.

    Jim Pollock
     
  16. dhwbailey

    dhwbailey Member

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    If you want to travel anywhere outside of your own country, a passport is a must. Bite the bullet and get one...keep it up to date...end of hassle.

    As for the form 6, I always keep one current. As soon as I get back from Florida in May, I renew it via fax...abot 2 weeks.
    Alaskan hunting licence is the easiest because you can buy next years in November. I cross the border January 1, so waiting for North Dakota won't work.

    Most times the border person doesn't really know what they are looking at. One time a newbie sent me in to secondary. When I got in they asked me what I was doing in there. They said the booth guys are supposed to look after that.

    If you think going to the US is a hassle, try Great Britain. Had to join the CPSA, then apply for a shotgun permit through them. Process took about a month and about $100.

    The world is changing. Planning is a must for almost any kind of travel.
     
  17. cdconley

    cdconley TS Member

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    C Guy,

    Just be glad you can bring your gun at all. Maybe you should compare our gun laws with the laws of other countries. Have you ever tried to take a gun to Mexico, France, Germany, Russia or China? Down here in Yuma AZ we have thousands of Canadians that spend a great deal of time. We have a lot of shooters that come down and support and use our club. Most of the Canadians are great people and their travels here are a benefit to our local economy. But with that said there is a small percentage that can be a real pain in the a$$. Personally I’m a little tired of Canadians that come to our country (because they want to) and then complain about it. Everything from complaining about the money exchange, paying sales tax or paying for medical services. So what I’m saying is try and be a nice guest and always remember that’s what you are, a guest. This is not Canada and we have no intention of changing things to become more like Canada. You should fully understand and respect our border laws even if you think they are stupid. I for one think that everyone bringing a weapon of any type into this county should be happy for that opportunity and thank us for that right instead of complaining that it’s too much trouble.
     
  18. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    25 to get a shotgun into Canada? Where at? The last time I went up it was 50. That was also my last time. Why pay to cross the border to spend hard earned dollars?

    Rickyd
     
  19. Calgary Guy

    Calgary Guy TS Member

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    Quote
    "Just be glad you can bring your gun at all. Maybe you should compare our gun laws with the laws of other countries. Have you ever tried to take a gun to Mexico, France, Germany, Russia or China? Down here in Yuma AZ we have thousands of Canadians that spend a great deal of time. We have a lot of shooters that come down and support and use our club. Most of the Canadians are great people and their travels here are a benefit to our local economy. But with that said there is a small percentage that can be a real pain in the a$$. Personally I’m a little tired of Canadians that come to our country (because they want to) and then complain about it. Everything from complaining about the money exchange, paying sales tax or paying for medical services. So what I’m saying is try and be a nice guest and always remember that’s what you are, a guest. This is not Canada and we have no intention of changing things to become more like Canada. You should fully understand and respect our border laws even if you think they are stupid. I for one think that everyone bringing a weapon of any type into this county should be happy for that opportunity and thank us for that right instead of complaining that it’s too much trouble."

    Remember, it goes both ways.
    We should all be helping to support and encourage the shooting sports, not putting up barriers for silly little things. And trust me Canadians are some of the best guest you will ever see.
    As a side note, I wonder if we have more Americans comming to visit Canada, than Canadians going to visit the states??? I know on a per capita basis, that the percentages would favour Canadians heading south, but I wonder in pure numbers what they would be.

    Calgary Guy
     
  20. cdconley

    cdconley TS Member

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    C Guy,

    It has nothing to do with supporting shooting sports. If you don't want to respect our laws, don't come. Canada has proven for many years that as a country they have no respect for our laws. In fact they have for years been a haven for draft dodgers and deserters. They refuse to extradite murders unless there is no chance that they will get the death penalty (another law Canadians look at as “stupid”). If Canada respected our laws they would send them back not give them safe haven. As for me you can count on the fact that I will never be visiting Canada. We have enough socialist in this country I surely don’t feel any need to deal with more by crossing your border.
     
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