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Stupid Lewis class question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by 5screw, Jun 4, 2007.

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  1. 5screw

    5screw TS Member

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    Ok, here is a stupid question that has arisen at the local trap club. although I have been playing Lewis class options for 30 years I don't really know how it works. There are two schools of thought here and they are:

    Example: There are 40 shooters and 10 shooters per class. Top scores are

    100
    100
    99
    99
    98
    96
    95
    94
    93
    92
    92
    91
    89
    88 Counting down 10 scores the tenth score is 92. Now the other theory is that
    each score is only counted once and that would mean only one 100 and one 99
    etc. That would make the 10th score 89. I have seen only the first method
    in printed rules. That makes the most sense EXCEPT what happens if you have
    the first 12 scores all of 100's How would the second class be determined?
    That's why the second method is being proposed. What's the answer?


    Bob
     
  2. C1

    C1 Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    LEWIS CLASS PURSES
    When all the shooting has been completed, the
    scores are listed in numerical order from the highest to
    the lowest. They are then divided into as many groups
    as there are classes. For example, if there were 30
    entries and 5 classes, (the use of 5 classes is only an
    example) there would be 6 scores in each class. The
    highest score in each class would then be a winner.
    Since there will often be odd numbers of entries and tie
    scores on the dividing line between the classes, the
    following rules have been established.
    4
    1. Where a short class is necessary, due to odd entry
    list, the short class or classes shall head the list.
    2. Where the line of division falls in a number of tie
    scores, the contestants are assigned to the class in
    which the majority of the scores appear.
    3. Where an equal number of tie scores appear on
    either side of the line, contestants shall be assigned
    to the head of the lower class.
    4. Where the original division is changed, due to tie
    scores, this change shall apply only to the classes
    directly affected and the original division shall
    continue in the other classes.
     
  3. 5screw

    5screw TS Member

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    Ok that does not answer my question. Does one count each 100, each 99, each 98 etc. If so where does the break happen if there are more scores of say 100 than there are shooters in the class. In otherwords if the class is supposed to break at 8 and there are 10 100's what do you do? Give the first 100 the first place Lewis and the 8th 100 the first place second class? Can't be


    Bob
     
  4. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Coral Springs, Florida
    You count each score individually. In your case above with 10- 100's the total class purse would be divided equally among all 10 100 shooters. The next highest score would be the top of the next class.


    Eric
     
  5. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Although rare, I have seen the same score hit two different lewis classes.

    When you are counting down, you have to count each shooter playing the option, not just once for each score. Otherwise, how would you have a dividing line falling in the midst of a bunch of 96's for example. The rules say that score gets classed where the majority of them fall in relation to the count line. If you only counted each score once, that rule would not be necessary.
     
  6. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    If you have say 6-93's and the line falls between number 4&5 or lower (IIII/II) then the 93's are the bottom of the class and no payout. If the line falls between numbers 3&4 (III/III) or higher then the 93's are the top of the next class. As ties divide, all the 93's would split the top of class payout.


    Eric
     
  7. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, mixer and I are saying the same thing in response to 5screw's question. Pointing out to 5 screw that you count each individual shooters score, not just counting all 97's as one score. When counting down, if there are 5 100's then the first 99 is number 6 in the count, not number two as 5screw was wondering about. I think you are both in agreement with that.

    I'll guess that it is the hitting twice point I made that seems odd, I thought so too when it happened at a shoot. This is a situation where one score occurs so often that it actualy hits the original count lines twice. Remember, the "moving a score up or down when it splits a count line" only affects those classes, the remaining original count lines are not affected. Let's say there are more 100's than the count. Ex - 10 100's and we are counting by 5's. The first line is drawn 5 scores down, which is midway between the 100's. 100 obviously hits the first lewis class. Next, the rule says a score split evenly goes to the top of the next class. The first line splits the 100's evenly, so they go to the top of the second class also. The original count lines remain unchanged.

    All I can tell you is I saw this occur at a relatively large shoot (not the exact same facts as my example, that was just the easiest I could think up quickly) and thought it was a mistake. After questioning, I was wrong.
     
  8. WilliamMR

    WilliamMR Active Member

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    In 5screw's example, it appears that rule #3 would apply. If so, am I correct that the 92's would head the top of the 2nd class. We rely on computers to do the calculations so much, so it's always interesting to run through a manual calculation.

    Bill Radwan
     
  9. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    There would be no choice to make, all 100's in my example would split the first lewis class as always; then since the first count line split the hundreds evenly, all 100's hit the second lewis also.

    I'm sure it rarely happens, but it does make sense following the rules as posted above. Unusual, but possible with an unusually high number of the same score. Again, very unusual scores but assume 10 per group: 9-100's, 22-99's and so on. High score of 100 wins first group; second group line falls in the 99's, one above and 21 below the line - therefore 99's drop to win second group. Third group line is still in the 99's since the lines are not redrawn, with 11 above the line and 11 below the line - therefore 99's also drop down to win the third group. Note that you don't decide which 99's go anywhere, they all win in both groups.

    I realize I may of been sold a bill of goods when I encountered this, but it makes sense if you follow the rules. Someone feel free to jump in and point out where I erred. Doesn't seem right, but the rules I have read for the Lewis don't provide for special treatment because an unusual situation seems unfair.
     
  10. 5screw

    5screw TS Member

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    Thanks guys. I understand it now. Good job


    Bob
     
  11. C1

    C1 Member

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    I am sure you do not count down when figuring Lewis, you count UP.
     
  12. guncase

    guncase TS Member

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    I thought the same, about the "count up thing", But Dick Otto of Gun Club Data Services wrote a book on it. He says count down! Wish I still had a copy of the old Remington Cashiers book that I learned from.

    Any body got one they could copy & send me????????????
    Paul
     
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