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Stopping AA Base Seperations

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by RunGunIPSC, May 19, 2010.

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  1. RunGunIPSC

    RunGunIPSC TS Member

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    There have been many comments about the new AA's seperation. I have a bunch of new AA's but not used them because of this. The Remington wad such as TGT & Figure 8 are about about .010(10 thousands)smaller at the base than the same AA wad. This can be felt also by putting the bases of each againgt each other. Would this smaller diameter release easier,thus putting less stress on the AA interior base & keep it from pulling loose? Will wad stiffness factor in? Payload;are there more seperations in 1 1/8 oz than 1 or 7/8 oz? More with aftermarket wads than factory(Rem or AA)wads? Tom
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Load with a Mec. the collet will squeeze the base and hold the base wad in much better. Inspect your loads, any with a bulge near the base wad should be rejected.

    I believe your methodology is somewhat flawed, since at the instant of firing the wad is pushed forward by the expanding powder gases, and the base wad should have some backward pressure on it also.

    These reported separations seem to have a lot to do with the means of sizing the brass. A ring type sizer pushes down on the brass, and may even contribute to loosening the base wad.

    I have been using AAHS, also STS. STS have variation in length, and crimps are funny sometimes. But they last, and shoot good.

    AAHS has not been a problem to me either.

    HM
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Reload on a MEC and quit worrying.

    Neil
     
  4. gary0920

    gary0920 Member

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    Send them to me and I will load them 10 times, if they don't separate, I'll send'em back to you.
     
  5. TNCoach

    TNCoach Member

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    Tom,

    I agreee with Neil - I'm using a MEC without any problems and getting great results, but I throw it away at the first sign of wear.

    HM - I've had fun with variable length STS hulls, but notice the crimp is cleaner the second time around?

    My 2 Cents,
    TNCoach
     
  6. cottondoctor

    cottondoctor Member

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    I have loaded thousands of AA 2 piece hulls with no problems - yet. I use a MEC and have not thought about how the sizer collet may either have a positive or negative impact on the base wad.

    What I do believe is that the way a MEC seats the primer - by pushing the case down onto the primer (the base wad supported by the powder delivery tube) rather than pushing the primer into the case while the base wad is not supported, may have a bigger impact than the method of sizing. – But what do I know…………
    The de-primer punch will also press down on the base wad as the sizer collet does its job – don’t know if this does anything or not……….
     
  7. napawino

    napawino TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I have loaded several thousand AAHS hulls on my Hornady 366 press with zero problems. I have never seen a loose base wad on any of these hulls. Load
    your shells and shoot them and stop worrying.
    Fred Wiedemann
     
  8. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Tom, No worries mate, just use a Mec reloader!!! Or any reloader like the Mec that seats the primer by a tube from the inside of the hull. This would reseat the seperate base wad down onto the primer and the primer will hold it. This is done BEFORE any powder is dropped, so no powder can get in behind the basewad. This is the only way it would be possible for the basewad to move forward in the hull and possibly into your barrel. You might want to go ahead and get used to it now. Because the reality is Rem.'s machine is the only one left in the world that still makes a one piece hull and it will not last forever. Once it becomes to expensive to keep repairing (as it wears out) they will have to replace it like the rest of the worlds 2 piece reloaders!!! They will follow Winchester in the two piece because the one piece machines are no longer being made, and to have one custom made would not allow them to keep their prices the same as Winchesters. I am sure Winchester thought out this same problem just before they replaced thier worn out machines years ago. Not ONE GUN has been linked to a barrel blow up from a AA basewad in the barrel, that I have EVER heard!!! All will be fine, if it makes you happier inspect all your hulls as you load. Good Luck and Break-em all. Jeff
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I think Winchester is using a different glue today compared to those earlier hulls. Fixed without saying so? Larger chambers may have been a contributing factor also in base separations. I still don't care for that infernal internal lip in AA hulls! Practically makes them one wad specific for reloading.

    Hap
     
  10. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I have loaded thousands of the new AA hulls since they came out and have NOT seen even ONE loose basewad, let alone one that has moved. I inspect all of my hulls before loading and have not seen it. I don't load hulls until they disintegrate, replacing them when they need to be. If there is a question about one, I toss it. I can usually get close to six or seven loadings, but limit them to about five. I toss the batch if I notice a percentage with many small pin holes and splits in the crimps.

    I load mostly on a MEC, so the basewad is supported during the priming operation.

    I HAVE seen MANY basewad migrations in some of the popular EuroTrash hulls. I won't load them.

    On a side note, I have actually tried to remove the basewads from a number of once fired and some really used up AA hulls I had to destroy the hulls to do so. Even the older worn out hulls had a good grip on the basewads. I tried pushing them out from behind, pulling them out from the front, and was not able to move one unless I cut the brass and tube.

    If there was once a problem, it appears that Winchester has resolved the issue.
     
  11. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    When Winchester went to the 2nd generation of the AA 2-piece design they added 2 annular ribs to the circumference of the base wad that locks it into the hull plastic under the brass. I've not seen 1 of these come loose; I have seen several of the 1st generation smooth sided base wads migrate as far up as the crimp .

    Winchester doesn NOT use any glue to assemble the hulls; the connection is purely mechanical. Cut a hull vertically with a band saw and the base wad can be popped from the halves with little effort once the pressure on it has been released.

    MK
     
  12. dezcon

    dezcon Member

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    I blew up a perfectly good Model 12 with reloaded AA hulls on a Ponsness-Warren reloader. I am not bashing a PW because I still reload on one with one piece hulls. I was loading 24.5 gr of 7625 with a 1 1/8 oz of #7 1/2s. There is NO WAY to double charge that load and pack it into a AA hull. After it happened, I checked the empty hulls that I had already shot and one hull did not have a base wad in it. We concluded it was the shot just before the incident. We think the base wad came out of the hull during the shot and got stuck in the forcing cone. When the next shot was fired, KABOOM! The Model 12 held together and Stu Wright re-sleeved it and the chamber was 0.022 out of round. When you load on a PW, the hull is held in place by the die touch only the exterior of the hull (the brass) when you are installing the new primer in the hull. If that primer does not go in exactly straight ( maybe a pice of flattened shot of redue powder is in the primer station pocket), then you are placing a "side wall" pressure on the base wad as the primer goes in place and this pressure could cause the base wad to "lift" off of the bottom of the hull. Where as with a MEC, there is a prmer station post that push down on the base wad, thus holding it in place while the primer is seated and thus not allowing the base wad to "break loose" from the bottom of the hull. To me , that is what happened in my case and there is NO DOUBT in my mind. Judge for yourself, but that is what happened to me. DAVID ZOFKO
     
  13. Mike Michalski

    Mike Michalski Member

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    Herb Roach, Back in the early '60s I reloaded paper shells with 1-1/8 & 1-3/8 for a model 58 Winchester Sportsman. Got pretty good and breaking the gun down in the field, using a knife to get the paper shell remaining in the barrel when only the brass came out. Good old days.
     
  14. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    dezcon, I believe what you say. In the past I caught a number of 1st generation 2-piece hulls with their base wads pushed up during loading on a PW press (I learned to look at the height of the shot in the hull as the shells indexed out of the shot-fill station).

    I have never seen that same thing happen to the new generations of hulls with the ridged base wads although habit has me checking the barrel after every shot whether I'm shooting new or reloaded AAs or Remingtons.

    MK
     
  15. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    My Dillon and New AA's have no problem together. 10K plus and still counting.
    Dave T.
     
  16. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Send them to me. No problem, I'll use them and send them back after about 8 reloads you pay shipping.....
     
  17. RunGunIPSC

    RunGunIPSC TS Member

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    Interesting comment these. I do use a Hydro Mec so that solves that one. I also inspect each hull befor loading,looking for splits in the crimp & the hull body. That should help. Also have a big bunch of the 80's Federal hulls with the "Flyin' Duck" on the bottom. I will be OK for a while.
     
  18. loop02

    loop02 Member

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    Winchester 2 piece hulls have 3 different types. Type 1 has a box around the AA, like old hulls. These are the ones they supposedly had trouble with. They now have type 2 and 3. One has a line under the AA, and the other has AA, with no line. I don't remember which is which. I have never had trouble with any of them, but I watch the ones with the box. Keith
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The last several posts indicate that there was indeed a problem with the original two piece hulls, as many suspected. And contrary to the many who stated there was nothing wrong with them. I recall a couple of posts about barrels being wrecked with new (unreloaded) AAs and promo shells. I stopped using them until this problem had been addressed. Does anyone know if the promo loads have been fixed in a fashion similar to the new AA's?
     
  20. loop02

    loop02 Member

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    The rumor is good for the hull business around here, you can sometimes get once fired hulls for free, always cheap.I personally know someone that blew up a gun with new AA,s. There is a guy in Louisville named Jim Strader that has an outdoor radio show on 840 am. He blew the side out of a Beretta barrel shooting doves with new Double A's. Fortunately he wasn't hurt.
     
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